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1 of 1- Leah
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Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
I just need to post here again, I feel like I try to avoid it because it just brings up so much of my angst. I read Ellexoh and feel so torn still. I am divorced. I am still not moving on and now we are two years post break up and mostly no contact. My GIDX is with another woman.
And so I need to post and list the reasons I divorced my husband of 27 years as I am still so heartbroken.
He is bisexual by his own account. I was never informed of this.
He cheated on me dozens of times with men (no full sex he claimed)
He had an affair with a woman for six months to check. (This is the only 'sex' he has had by his account)
He gave me crabs while I was pregnant with our third son.
He had a gaydar profile (incomplete and only for dirty talk?)
He watched gay porn online which he stopped after I found it? Maybe.
He took me to a gay hot tub place soon after the birth of that son.
He undermined my confidence in myself endlessly in social and professional aspects of my life
He verbally abused me calling me 'crazy' bitch etc.
He criticised and controlled me using money as I was a SAHM and I felt guilty about 'doing' things for me.
And all that is true, and then he promised no more of "that" he was through and I could see his phone, computer etc if we were to stay together. He was sweet and loving and told me he wanted me.
But I would not have divorced him if:
He was honest and totally forthcoming with all of what and when he cheated.
He was not so vague to protect me, just enough to set me onto a mental torture routine of what was the extent of it all. (his shame was so strong that he could not 'remember' much as it was "all in the past")*
He hadn't met up with the man he told me was in love with him and hid that (*during the time he claimed he was 'over' all that).
He hadn't typed 'male massage' into his computer immediately after moving to another town for work.
But I suppose the most painful aspect that caused me to go forward with the divorce was:
- A complete lack of empathy for the pain of his betrayals and his insistence I never speak about it.
- A complete lack of honesty in discussing his behaviour - vague and evasive answers to any specifics which prevented any chance of me healing or knowing my own marital history.
- A lack of desire to go to counselling or 'do' anything more. He backed away and then told all about 'his' heartbreak?!! And now the shape shifting story is ever evolving....
We had been to counselling ironically early in our relationship where he told the counsellor 'he had no voice' and my needs came first?!! Really like my need to be protected from crabs/STDs???? Reads more like he had no ability to speak the truth and he had no desire to fulfill my desires for us as a couple and a family. Reluctant is/was his middle name....
Thanks for reading my rant/reasons. I chose to divorce. It was the best option in a really shitty multiple choice test. I'm now looking for work. I've sold the family home, so am starting afresh in my 50s which is not easy and I feel scared and uncertain.
Thanks for all who post here. It is cathartic to get this out. I wish I felt more positive about my divorce, but I still somehow hold on to the person I thought I was married to. To the Pollyanna ideal that somehow I wanted him to be. The same ideal he revelled in all the while he was hiding and cheating and so undeserving of my admiration.
And that is a myth and what he wanted to continue because the truth was he was a lying, cheating bastard that gaslighted me endlessly and projected his angst on to me 'the ball and chain' putting all his emotional efforts into deep sixing his SSA and hiding his lies. So when I asked for the normal emotional support of a husband and father he reacted with brutality. How dare I expect more from him?
What was the last straw that sent you to the lawyer??
Last edited by Leah (August 17, 2017 1:47 pm)
- Rob
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
Leah,
Your words resonate long after reading your post...
"..So when I asked for the normal emotional support of a husband and father he reacted with brutality.."
What sent me to a lawyer was here reckless destruction of the marriage...blantantly cheating and not caring..total dis-regard for finances, the kidsm and what she was doing. Like she was a drug addict who would do anything for the gay sex/her girlfriend. I honestly felt if her girlfriend told her to slit my throat she would to it.
When did I decide that divorce was the only option.? You could say that she decided by filing for divorce first but that is not really true...a week or 2 more and I would have filed the papers.. I was gatheting strength....and the silence between us caused her to crack first. Silence because there was nothing left to say. After that the rage and abuse ...silence was welcome then.
But Leah im like you...I will move on... slowly but I am moving bit by bit. I am no contact and am still grateful for getting away from her. I loved her more anything and will not be ashamed of that... that she hurt me and rejected that love..well she is just a horrible human being.. I think it goes beyond being gay... We are not capable of hurting someone like they did me.. the lying, cheating,...etc We are not morally capable of doing it.. We say they are lying
cheating bastards...yes... I prefer the term they have a "broken moral core"...aka..lying cheating bastards. And that i am scared of and so glad to be away from.
Moving on... I accept my time with a broken ex and am trying to create version 2.0 of me... Version 2.0 will be better.. The one thing that will always make me better is no cheating, gay in denial, cruel spouse
raging at me.. Basically no abuse,,just strong fierce love redirected at myself and my kids... and that is a strong foundation to start over on.
"For we walk by faith, not by sight .." 2Corinthians 5:7
- OutofHisCloset
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
What finally sent me to the lawyer?
One final instance of the narcissistic behavior that has been unleashed in him and has escalated since he declared he was trans.
Last week I drove a thousand miles to see my aging mother, who the week before had suffered a stroke. I was, of course, out of my mind with worry over her. On the evening of the day I arrived, I received an email from my husband, finally addressing an issue I'd raised with him back in June, and using the email to establish how superior he was to me by accusing me of failing to appreciate the things that because he did appreciate them made him superior to me. This failure on my part, he claimed, needed to be addressed in conversation.
Little by little over the past two and a half years I have learned to read this kind of behavior on his part.
He waits until I am fully occupied with something of my own, whether it be my own work, or, as in this instance, caring for someone else in my family, and then sends an email designed to worry and decenter me, and to shift my attention onto him and my failings in regards to him. He accuses and blameshifts, and the tone of such emails is always both imperious and wounded.
That I was once again on the end of one of these missives on the very day I arrived to care for my aging mother was the final straw.
That night I told her what I'd been keeping secret for the past two and a half years, and called a law office the next day. I've now made contact and am awaiting the appointment.
Leah, I recognize in your situation much that I've also experienced: the gaslighting and blameshifting, the self absorbed self-pity, the lack of engagement in family life, even the intermittent episodes of what looks like remorse and changed behavior. What helped me see this pattern, and helps me conquer my fears? Chump Lady, and all the tales of those who've left cheating spouses--gay, gay in denial, straight--and have gone one to live a mighty life.
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (August 17, 2017 9:06 am)
- Still Wondering
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
What finally sent me to the lawyer:
I wanted to take three months to myself to move out into an apartment, be separate from the whole situation, and just have time to think. We had already been through the "I swear I can stop it" phase two or three times before but I just needed time to think and to decide if I was going to give it another shot. He was sweet and helpful with the move and continued his speeches about how he just didn't realize (the three previous times it happened and I told him it bothered me) that all the gay porn surfing and naked picture taking of his schlong bothered me. But NOW, now that he realizes it he has stopped everything. He even went so far as to email me a typed word document on my first night in my apartment. It stated how disappointed in ME he was for not believing him when he said he had stopped everything. A few days later I had to go back to our house to get a few things and I noticed he had left open his email. Well, I'm not one to pass up a gift like that so I looked. And there it was...orders for dildos and sex toys not even an hour after sending me that letter. For whose ass? No one else lived there. There was even one with a suction cup so he could stick that shit to the shower wall.
The next week I looked him right in the eye and gave him a chance to come clean. I told him: keep in mind that previously when I've asked you if you're still looking at men or doing things in that realm, I already know the answer so I want you to really think it over before you answer. The shock in his eyes! You would have thought I just kidnapped his first born child! He was so insulted. Then I was like really? Exactly one hour after sending me your "how dare you not believe me" letter you went online and bought dildos and ass toys. Ohhh, he said. That's not gay, that's not even in the same realm!! I was just bored. I didn't lie at all!
Ok, aaaand we're done here.
Leah - I feel for you. I really do. As much as it sucks to start over, you have to realize that your ex is disgusting. You deserve so much better than that. It doesn't matter that he's with a woman. She's in danger of him not only ruining her life emotionally but ruining her health. You said what pushed you to move forward with the divorce was his complete lack of compassion and lack of desire to go to counseling. But going to counseling with a person like this is the last thing you want. Once someone has put you in harms way the way he had there's no need to try again. There's nothing a counselor can do to take away the exposure to crabs and whatever other STDs were in that bath house. Counseling is for people who have disagreements about things, not for convincing someone to put themselves back into a situation like that. I'm so glad he didn't show any compassion! If he had then he would have tricked you to come right back into the dangerous life he was leading.
One day the switch will flip and the love or Pollyanna ideal you think you have for him will die and the angst of coming here will turn to wanting to come here to help others (which by the way, you're already helping others with every post - even if you think you're just gaining strength for yourself, you're helping everyone by sharing your story). Hang in there.
Last edited by Still Wondering (August 17, 2017 11:13 am)
- Leah
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
Dear Rob OOHC and Still Wondering,
Isn't insane how clever it seems they are at turning all that dedication we had to the relationship into a blame-shifting nightmare. I still can't believe that it is somehow my fault that we are divorced. That it was MY CHOICE!
What choices do we actually have here? To put up with the unbelievable selfishness of someone who has disregarded our choice to understand marriage as monogamy and fidelity? It was a contract, and fine if you want to renegotiate, then at least let me know?!
I want what I cannot have and indeed never have had - a faithful spouse who loves me. He is so pathetic and like yours OOHC so full of a self-absorbed self-pity that it just is like dealing with a child. A small pouting child who got caught red handed with their fat little hand in the cookie jar and is outraged that you have reprimanded them.
I saw him a few weeks ago at my son's graduation. I had called him the night before to tell him of my plan to take our son to lunch so my son would not have any awkward choice to make. When I said how hurt I was that he had not told me of my MIL's deterioration in health, he got nasty. Told me I never really was that close to her, etc.
The next day as we sat down for the graduation and I expressed my desire to have a civil relationship, he turns to me and says "you are a horrible person and I don't want any relationship with you" It was just so unnecessarily hurtful in that moment. (Here I must admit that I outed him to his family for which I do feel badly, but he had baited me so cruelly moments before telling me his new GF (beard) deserves the whole truth, but I don't! And texts are just sooo easy these days and in the heat of the moment...! So that is his bone with me.
It is like dealing with a small child who just wants to call me names. It always was like that. I would complain about something fairly small he did that hurt my feelings and he would always retaliate with a sort of well you did x and you are x and it would escalate into You're crazy and a bitch and even "I hate you'. He was never able to apologise and would verbally defend himself by cutting me down in the face of my criticism. It always went low.
And I get - still - caught and react to it. But I have to remember where this is coming from. His shame and guilt are so much a motivator. He has to defend himself at all costs as he feels he has a right to his life and choices and who am I to condemn him. But the fact is these choices have altered my life. Stolen years of happiness I might have had if I wasn't being treated in this way and been the butt of his resentment for so long. So many fights and heartfelt discussions that lacked any integrity as they didn't address the real problem of HIS unhappiness and SSA. He always managed to turn the conversation into all about my flaws and how delusional I was. It always ended up being about my deficits, esp. if I was depressed (as was the case being home isolated in a foreign country with young children) and so I feel my mental health suffered as every turn for support was met with this hardness. Even now I doubt the most basic things. My self esteem is so low.
I thought this time I wouldn't get pulled in, but I got so upset at the whole rejection of me. I'm moving house, I've packed up the family home alone and this just seemed unduly cruel. Not wanting any relationship - I said we always will have a relationship as we have three sons.... And so then I'm the needy crazy one crying.... and I hate myself for being so pathetic. It is just so hard.
And now a few weeks later, I'm feeling sad and alone and he is still the one I want to talk to....only he isn't there. Some person I no longer know is. Someone who doesn't care if I am hurt or upset. Someone who will hurt and upset me if I give him the chance. And so I must walk on. And I'm not even sure if I can most days. I have everything one needs, but I feel down. I feel alone. He's left me unprepared for a career start as so many here have been. It seems so unbelievable. So many junctions in our life together where I had the choice to take a job or retrain and he fought me. Only latterly did I fight him to retrain in an area I enjoyed, but don't make much money doing. I feel so bitter and angry at all those turning points - I could have picked up my professional career, but instead chose to stay home with our sons. I could have retrained with a MA and instead he argued it was too expensive. Anyway.
I'm having a bad day. You are right SW. I am one of the lucky ones really. I think gratitude helps really, but today I'm just grieving the dream my little Pollyanna heart wanted it to be.
Last edited by Leah (August 17, 2017 1:41 pm)
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Thread Starter- Rob
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
Leah,
"..and I hate myself for being so pathetic. It is just so hard. "..
No.. just no. You are not pathetic. Your human..an empathetc, compassionate and moral human who feels.
I get the same behavior from my ex..one reason we are no contact...she will jump at the chance to lash out at me still... and I did nothing but love and treat her well. I know her though...she had to do this...if she says I did bad things and lashes out , in her mind, that makes it true... it makes everything she did ok. That the reality is the exact opposite..they will not accept... We have to keep ourselves in true reality...they will try to re-write reality... my ex..always..she though if she screamed at me loud enough, if she threw things.. that would make what she was saying true. Like everyone I find myself alone and hurt but not as hurt as living in her warped reality.
Also...for those that have some guilt about filing the divorce.. Just no. The divorce is merely pomp and circumstance...a formality.. a step in sequence of events if you cheat on and hurt your spouse. These spouses left us long ago with what they were doing and keeping secret. They cannot act surprised and blame when we must divorce.
"For we walk by faith, not by sight .." 2Corinthians 5:7
- Leah
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
Thanks Rob for your kind words.
I gave mine ammunition to use. He has used it in spades. And those hard times at the end when I was like a maimed animal in pain are where he gets his examples. I did behave badly in ways I am ashamed of and it does add fuel to his dramatic exit and story of how crazy I am.
But yes, 25 or so years of cheating and lying and hiding and yet I end up feeling guilty for the sorry drawn out and painful denouement.
I gave away so much of my power to this man and I still am. Slowly I am seeing how really awful it was. And is. But now I have to rise again like Phoenix! Only I feel a bit more like a wet wobbly mess of a person at times. But slowly the gaps where I can be happy are getting a little longer.
I've just got the post holiday - being with people all the time blues....I do find that happens as I come back to living alone....I feel it so much more.... I have a lot more compassion these days for those who are alone. I really need a job as I'm alone far too much otherwise!
Off to watch some crap TV...
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Thread Starter- Still Wondering
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
Yes - I got the same idiotic response too: "this divorce was your choice". Um, no, the large dildo you stick in your rear made the choice for me. It's pretty simple. But as easily as I say that right now, we all know the road to get there was not "pretty simple". We question ourselves and try not to throw away a marriage until we know we've tried everything we possibly can. It's not until we realize we're the only ones trying that we can finally just let go. But in reality, what can they really try? You can't change your sexual preference through counseling.
Great point Rob - I agree. Have zero guilt over the divorce. It's just a step in a chain of events caused by them.
Leah - I don't think it's Pollyanna at all to grieve the person you thought he was. I grieve for the life I had. It becomes less and less with time and more of a pissed off thing. I think eventually even the pissed phase will pass.
- Leah
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
So true SW - it does help to say those gross things to really make you see how crazy it is to feel like it was our choice.
To my GIDX, I say....the getting your cock sucked in toilets (occasionally) and having an affair with a woman to 'check' if you were gay...yea I think those things really made The Choice for me. And then my biggest crime was to talk about it, want to understand why and how and when...for that I was accused of 'getting at him'. 'Trying to make him feel bad" "Is that all you want is for me to feel bad?" Ad nauseum.
And now he says he is understood and accepted fully for 'who he is' by his new partner who he didn't lie and cheat on and who knows he is bisexual. Why tell me that? Pain is what he wants for me. Suffering and pain. And to think I was wrong to divorce him. All self serving - nothing about his behaviour now or then honours my love and devotion and role in his life and that of his sons. Nothing. Except perhaps his staying away as SW points out.
And yes the road to this is a long one. A friend of mine has had a partner die and an ex via divorce and she said the divorce was harder by far. And I think it is because it is not just a sudden or expected outcome. It is a choice, but not always yours.
I do grieve the man I loved, who I thought he was. And he loved that about me... perhaps in hindsight that was all he loved. My vision of who he was....was flattery,
Last edited by Leah (August 17, 2017 4:42 pm)
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Thread Starter- Kel
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Re: Why I divorced the man I loved so much...a list. What's yours?
I didn't really divorce the man I loved so much. I divorced the man whose actions over time caused me to fall out of love with him. Even that (being out of love) I was used to. I still loved him, and had love for him. I just hadn't felt in love with him in several years.
I decided to divorce before I knew that my ex was gay. I had every desire - all my life - to be married, to remain married, and to work at my marriage. I was opposed to divorce mostly because I knew it would be breaking my children's home up. And also because I just could never see how I could do it all on my own - both financially and logistically. I mean, if something seems impossible, it's not something you think about doing. For a long time, I didn't think about divorce as much as I thought about getting the crap in my marriage that was making me unhappy fixed. There were two ways to do this - adjust my expectations, or have him change (or some of both).
Getting him to change meant that I needed to clearly communicate my unhappiness to him, and what needed to change. I did that. Repeatedly. Then I began to see that I needed to tell him not only what needed to change, but to find ways to help us fix it together. For instance, I needed sex on a more regular basis (vs. the every 6-12 weeks or so that I was able to entice him into giving in). So I asked if we could put it on the calendar. Or maybe created more of a romantic setting - starting with a massage (for him, not me - I was always in the mood), candles, soft music, etc. He'd either say that he didn't like that kind of stuff (Who the eff doesn't like that kind of stuff???) or I'd go ahead and create that environment and he'd say something like, "Now? I didn't know you wanted to do this today." As though he needed a warning that we'd be doing such a thing. It wasn't like I tried these things when he was exhausted, or in a bad mood, or needed a shower. He just for some reason felt like he needed to mentally prepare or something. Or he'd let me do things to him, but then wasn't in the mood to reciprocate. Ugh.
And so I went one step further - delving into what could be the root cause of the lack of desire. How to support and respect him more heartily so he'd feel more affection toward me. Nothing worked. Then I tried to get out of him what the issue could be. He'd come up with reasons - I'd gained a bit of weight (after having 3 kids, one of whom was 10 lbs. Go figure). So I lost the weight. I wasn't thin by anyone's standards - far from it. But I was thinner than I was when we'd met, so that had to count for something, didn't it? I threw the whole kit and kaboodle in - started dressing different, grew out my hair, paid closer attention to shaving and soft skin, wore makeup more regularly, even eventually got breast reduction (which added perkiness) and a tummy tuck. Nothin'.
So I delved into other reasons. He told me that his prior sexual abuse made him just not appreciate sex as much as the ordinary person. I could accept that, and had always expected as much. But it seemed as though our sex life was becoming more and more limited. Little to no kissing, no touching / admiring of anything I possessed, etc. So I encouraged him to go to counseling. After all, HE must hate how this limited him, right? Nope! He said he was fine with it. "So,..... you're admitting that you know you are limited, and what from, and you don't want it fixed?" Nope. Fine with it. "Even if it's making me unhappy and destroying our marriage?" "Oh jeez Kel - just get OFF it, okay?" I was oversexed, or expected too much. Too much meaning that he'd want to touch me below the waist, or do anything but doggy style. Yeah - I sound like a downright freak. He did go to counseling a few times - usually after a joint marriage counselor would figure out that the problem originated with him, not me/us. And he'd quit right quick after it wasn't me driving him there every week. Annnnnd..... back to square one. Great.
Eventually I began to get really angry that me being unhappy wasn't affecting his ability to be happy. That he was happy with me being unhappy. And so I began to express to him more often and more strongly just how important this issue was to me - it wasn't something I wanted, it was something I needed. It was necessary to keep me in the marriage. Which, by extension, meant that if I continued to go without this need being met, it WOULD mean the disintegration of the marriage. Yep - got it Kel. I eventually told him that it wasn't a threat - it was a fact. And we were inching closer to it every day. And only HE could change it. Yep, got it Kel. Later, he would tell me (when I asked for a divorce) that he didn't know I was THAT serious about it. Jeez! I'm not sure what more I could do to convey it to him. I never cried wolf on anything. He simply didn't want to believe me was all. After all, I'd been bitching about this issue for 10 (of our 16) years already. Clearly I'd trained him to think that he could keep doing nothing, and nothing would change.
So in the end, it wasn't his gay tendencies that made me throw in the towel. It was the realization of the following:
- My unhappiness wasn't important to him.
- He was just fine with changing nothing.
- HE could have sex from me whenever he wanted it. After all, I'd never pass up an opportunity, lest I not get one again soon. So he never had to have sex when he didn't want to. That was ME with that problem.
- Nothing had changed one iota in the 10 years that I'd been audibly complaining.
- As he aged and his desire seemed to wane, mine was on the upswing. We were literally getting FURTHER apart.
- I could not seem to alter my need for intimacy. I'd tried. It was a losing battle.
- If he couldn't / wouldn't alter himself, and I couldn't alter my desire, then.... we were stuck. This was it. It was just going to keep going on this way.
- I was NOT cool with that. I would NOT choose to continue doing that every day for another 25 years.
- I was not guaranteed that if I left, that I'd be happier. But I WAS guaranteed that if I stayed, I was never going to get happier.
- I was just as important in this mix as everyone else - as my children, as my needy ex, and as his mother - who lived with us. I may put myself last, but I SHOULD be on the damned list. Clearly no one else was going to put me there.
- Staying with him wasn't fixing him. Continuing to stay with him wasn't going to fix him.
- I didn't think he was truly happy either, despite what he said. He didn't want me anymore either.
- The thought of divorcing made me panic. But the thought of continuing along that path we were on and looking at my life years from now made me want to f'ing hyperventilate. I knew what I was more afraid of.
- I began to see that I had been already been doing a lot of the parenting (and "adulting") on my own for a long time.
- Marriage needed to have passion in it or it wasn't really a marriage. I was giving up a piece of paper, not a solid relationship. I wasn't going to cut a rope, I was going to cut a string. It's amazing we were still hanging on.
So I told him I wanted the divorce. He fought to save the marriage. That obviously didn't work. I can't attest to whether he's happier now or not. He says he is. I think he's more at home with his choice of a man as his partner. I don't think he's with the right one though, so he has given up a lot of who he is to a person who is controlling and manipulative. But I'm not sure that has anything to do with the fact that it's a man. I think I treated him better than this man does, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. He could find someone better, and I'm sure be much happier.
In the end, it wasn't what he did that made me divorce him. It was all the things that I DIDN'T have in my marriage, and realizing that for whatever reason, I never would have those things with this man. And so to stay was literally choosing to be unhappy. And I just couldn't choose unhappiness for myself, and as a blueprint for my kids. The path didn't necessarily become more clear after I made that decision - but my resolve did. I forged the path as I put one foot in front of each other every day. And I very quickly got to a place better than anything I'd ever hoped for in my wildest dreams. I could never have had this life if I hadn't put the old life down and learned to walk away from it. I didn't even know what I was walking toward - just that I had to get away from the thing that was making me so ill. And the further away from it I got, the better I felt. Until I was able to fly again.
Kel
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.