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Tue Jun 13 2:25 pm  #41


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

Hi Steen,

I really think that you are missing the forest for the trees.  The big picture here is that she is sexually aroused by females.  You have described a few situations where she says she was aroused by something another woman said, or by a woman coming onto her.  If she's the type of person who can get her engines revved up by words (and many women are), then you should have seen plenty of that with.... YOU.  You should have been able to describe a sexy scene to her and had her come back at you aroused.  She should have been listening to a sexy song and written you saying that she wants you tonight.  There is a big difference between a woman who just isn't all that into sex, and one that seems uninterested in sex with you, but still seems turned on by someone else (or a whole lot of others).  You do not have the former situation - you have the latter.  And THAT is a problem.

The typical man would likely stop here and say, "Well.... maybe she just doesn't enjoy sex with ME.  Maybe I'm just not that good.  Only, as I said,... the arousal should still be there.  You should still see her coming at you, even if she turned the tables toward her own enjoyment.  And if the problem was your performance, you should have heard that at the counselor.  She would have been saying, "I'm just not that into the way he kisses", or "He's selfish and I feel like he's doing everything for his own enjoyment without considering me.", etc.  If you haven't heard those things at the counseling, then they're just not there.  Which means that she doesn't have arousal for you, but DOES have arousal.  And it's not your performance.  Which means.... what?  That she's not into MEN.

Unlike some of the other posters further forward in the thread, I DON'T advocate completely trusting someone at their word when their actions are showing you that the words and actions don't line up.  It's not like confronting a person will always reveal the truth - even in a straight marriage.  People cover what makes them look bad, or selfish, or mean.  They inherently know what those things are.  The fact that she wants the conversation to stop is a big red flag, too.  Women love nothing more than in-depth conversation about relationships.  NOTHING.  What she's asking you to do is to not confront her about her obscure behaviors - because she has no good explanation for them.  She knows that she can't away with the simple, "I GUESS I'm looking at them, but not for any specific purpose."  Even if I were to look at another woman who is beautiful, I would NOT be touching my lips, or any other body part, for that matter.  Her body is betraying her - she is lost in how she feels.

You say she doesn't know herself as well as you thought she did.  I think she does.  I think she just doesn't want to admit what she knows.  Because it'd change your relationship, and she doesn't want that.  I'm not sure WHY she doesn't want that - maybe she's scared about how she'd live monetarily, or how she'd manage the kids and the house alone.  But it's NOT because she desires you immensely and can't imagine living without you in her bed.  If that were the case, you'd SEE that.  You'd feel her desire.  You'd see her concern.  What you are seeing is an inability to explain herself fully, or to alter her behavior to show you more how she feels.  She's trying to hide what she's doing, not to reveal how she feels.

I hate to be the one that makes you feel bad about the relationship.  But I think you've already passed a point of no return.  Nothing is going to change to make it all go away.  You FEEL the problem because it is there.  Even if invisible, it's like the wind - you can feel it.  If you had to prove the wind exists by more than just its affects, you'd never be able to do so.  It cannot be seen - only its affects can be.  You see perfectly clearly.  You're just being told that she has no idea of what you're talking about.  Stop doubting what you're feeling, and seeing.  It's there.  Time to put your foot down and tell her that you're unhappy, her behavior is innapropriate, and that something needs to change or you're on a path of no return

The only thing I ever said to my ex that made him stop in his tracks was, "It's clear you don't WANT me.  Why do you keep holding onto me if you really don't want me?  Why not be free to get what you DO want?"  He did NOT scream back, "Because it's YOU I want!"  He stopped, thought for a half-minute, and then said, "I guess."  Then he snapped out of it and went back to his "We're NOT giving up on this marriage!" standard answer.  If she wants women, let her know that she should have them.  That all you want is for her to be happy, even if it's not with you.  Then just watch and listen.

Kel

 

Last edited by Kel (Tue Jun 13 2:30 pm)


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

Wed Jun 14 1:35 pm  #42


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

Hi Steen,

I am responding out of fellow feeling - I did so many of those conversations that I think I must consider myself as having ptsd.  

Arrgggghhhhhh, I gurgle reading your post and remembering what it feels like to be served confusing mishmash as a thank you for my care and sincerity.  I waded through decades of the stuff before I even realised he wasn't giving me straight answers, that it wasn't me being an idiot somehow  -  so good for you.

Finally I worked it out.  I already knew he was gay when he finally admitted to bisexual.  For two weeks he tried to get me back in his pocket and I kept saying bisexual is not the same as straight and you should have told me.  So then he said I've changed my mind and decided I am 100% straight and if I didn't believe him I must be nuts and that was the point at which I realised I better get divorced asap.

That's a few years ago now and one of the enduring things that makes me want to curl up and die is recognising how many of those confusion-generating conversations I endured thinking it was my fault I was confused.  My rudeness to ask awkward questions.

And you've got her therapist adding pressure too!  good luck my friend.  The more you learn the bleaker the picture is.

It's quite deliberate you know, she's not experiencing confusion, you are.  In a little while you might start to notice how she manipulates you in other ways too. 

 

 

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