Hello again, 

I'm a great believer of diversity of thought and the need to be challenged  - OHC - your message was particularly hard to hear (wicked witch of the west was always my favourite character) but I am grateful to have an alternative view - it's levelling and a stark reminder of what's actually going on here - so thank you to you and all others for honest and frank responses. 

What I'm really taking from all of your responses is that I need to put myself first in whatever capacity I see fit and if that means being kind sometimes then that's ok - as I say, it may sound daft but having someone else say that's ok means a lot to me.

The advice that ' His struggle is not yours to nurture him through' and ' Let him make sense of his own life' is something that I know I NEED to start to address in my responses and I am going to be actively working on this in myself and how I approach my interactions with him.

The reminder that things are ever changing and will continue to change is also significant for me. Last night I joined a running club and it was nice. And when I got home, he had made me a hot drink and asked if we wanted to sit together in the lounge, as we always used to (the past month we've just been retiring to our own rooms s). I agreed and sat with him - after 5 minutes, I was minded of all of your messages and for whatever reason, it didn't feel right in that moment - it made me sad - so I just told him this and left - that was the right thing for me to do in that moment and I felt better for it. 

And yes, you're right, he is bloody lucky having such a supportive wife and good kids .....

Finally, I just wanted to say how out of character it has been for me to access such support networks, let alone chat with complete strangers in this way but it is a great source of support, for which I am indebted. I hope that in time, I can give back to others by giving support but for now i just need to make sense of my own story first. 

 

Hi Addie,

Welcome. You've gotten a lot of good advice here.  I'm glad you found us and have a place to vent and lay out your fears and questions. To me, writing out how I feel is more than just that.  My feelings are often very messed up until I begin pulling on the end of the string and see that I can make sense of it all once I start writing - it's all IN there, but sometimes just not linear enough for us to figure out how to put it all together until we start writing it all out.

My advice would be to stand back from the situation and look at the overall picture and figure out what the main theme of this is.  When I read your initial post, what stood out to me was that you already know that you're separating in a few years, but have decided to stay together until your daughter goes off to college.  I'd look at the entire situation from that vantage point. Meaning,... you made that decision for a reason - what was the reason? Break it down - you made the decision to separate - why? Is it because you already know that his new lifestyle is not compatible with your basic demands for a marriage? Then figure out why you've decided to delay the separation. It's likely so that your daughter can enjoy her last year at home with stability and without emotional upheaval.  Then make any and all decisions through the combined lens of those two things - like a pair of glasses.  Then make decisions that ONLY support both of those views simultaneously - just like a pair of glasses.

IF I happened to hit the nail on the head with regards to your reasons, then your picture would begin to look different than the one you're used to. The set of glasses you were used to having on had lenses that focused on different things than what you've now decided must be focused on. Before, one lens was trained on what was good for your marriage. You made decisions through that lens, which meant that you focused on your partner's needs above those of your own. You assumed that since he was wearing the same lenses as you (because you decided to wear those the day you stood at the alter), that he was putting you above himself. And so it worked. Now your lens has changed because he's decided that he cannot or will not any longer be able to focus on the marriage/you, but needs to address his own needs. He may be doing this because he feels incapable of focusing on anything else at this point in his life.  Or because he's come to a point where he feels that focusing on anything else is unfair to him. Regardless, he's made the decision. His decision is that he NEEDS to be with other people, and he intends to do this. It's non-negotiable. He knows he'll lose you over this, but he chose it anyway. Again, whether because he wants to or because he feels he is incapable of making any other decisions is immaterial - he's decided to stop using the lens of "marriage" to focus through. This means that you must now also change your lens - because if you don't, then he's focusing on him, and you're focusing on him. And then no one is focusing on you. Focusing on him will leave you feeling betrayed, bereft and broken. He has chosen to be a single man when it comes to his heart and his body, so you chasing after him is akin to a scorned girlfriend who just keeps hanging on his coattails, thinking that if she remains around, he'll chose her out of seeing her devotion. It doesn't matter - he doesn't want her devotion. Her devotion is weighing him down.

So you need to replace your "marriage" lens with the "separation" lens. The one that says that your end goal here is to separate - because that's what you've decided is inevitable. To that end, you view all things through that purpose. If you are going to eventually separate, then start making decisions through that lens - would a person who is going to separate feel the need to support the other person? No, they would not. They may feel the need to be kind and decent - because of their own personal morals of being that way toward everyone. But you cannot get to the point of separation without some heavy cleaving along the way. And it WILL feel uncomfortable - because it's not what you're used to doing. Since you have a child who's ready to fly the nest, you should be somewhat familiar with the process of letting her do things that might make you feel uncomfortable, but you also feel are necessary with the looming deadline of her being outside of your household soon. It would be unwise of you to ask her to keep you up-to-date on every.little.place that she goes, knowing that you won't have ANY of that insight in a year's time. It would be horribly limiting for her, and it would make it extra painful for you when the time comes for the actual separation. So you let go bit-by-bit, every day. Even if you're uncomfortable and don't like it. That's the same lens you use with your husband now - that you will be separating into two completely separate individuals, so continuing to foster union at this point is unwise.

You need to start asking yourself what someone on a path to separation would wisely do. Would they sit down on a daily basis and ask about how the other person's dating life is going? Who the person they met with today is, what they're like, and what their feelings for them would be? No - they would not. Because it's not focusing on separation. If you are wanting to be kind, then you make a different deal with yourself - that all that information is unkind to YOU. It tears at your heart. You may be naturally hungry for the info, but it's really not for his benefit - it's because you cannot resist knowing how he's doing on separating from YOU. His answers tell you how far he's come. And since the answers thus far have been "meh", that gives you a false sense of security. You assume he's being honest, and that he's just not moving forward in his quest to find someone better than you. It's a false sense of security. Because a) it assumes he's telling you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And b) you still feel like the "winner" until he finds someone. There is no winning in this any longer - winning now focuses to making it to the other side (separation) whole and healthy.

The other lens, of course, is the environment you want for your daughter while she finishes high school.  So focus on that. It will take up a lot of your time, and will give you something to look forward to. Make this year the best you can. Decide (if you can afford it) to knock yourself out getting her prepared for Homecoming (not sure if they do that where you are, or not), Prom, college visits and application, financial aid applications, planning a graduation party, etc. Your purpose for not separating now is to reduce stress on her while you feel she cannot afford it. But you will also need to focus on the fact that if you make this TOO sterile for her, it will shock HER too much when the time comes for separation, too. So start building in some space where you feel you can - where it will help her see that you and her father are still two individuals that love her, but no longer one unit. That means no longer exhibiting affection toward your husband in front of her. Because that will complicate things for her later. It means not complaining to her about your emotional state. It doesn't mean hiding it - it just means that you don't use her as a counselor. Because that's too stressful, and again - you decided not to separate NOW because you didn't want undue stress on her

Together, the two lenses should focus you. And every decision should be made using those glasses. Once you put them down, you can't see well enough, and the pair you pick back up when it all gets blurry may just be the ones you used to wear. And they'll have you banging into walls again, bruising yourself. Throw those things out - or lock them away in a drawer somewhere, along with your wedding photos.

You need to see yourself now as someone who is strong - and able to make decisions that are difficult. Because that's what you're growing into. It's HARD to make the decision to stop asking on a daily basis how he feels about you (I know you think you're not doing that, but asking about his dates is just that). You are essentially hanging onto hope that he'll change his mind. Please see the fact that he's made the decision to step outside of the marriage as him having already having made the biggest move of all.  He's already decided he needs something else more than you. Whether he finds someone to sleep with or not doesn't change that. The biggest step has already taken place. Everything after that (for him) are little steps.

I encourage you to set up boundaries that go along that support your new lens of separation. It's not enough to just stop asking him about his encounters. Tell him that you will no longer be doing that, and that it's his business, and you don't want to hear about it anymore because it hurts you too much. I'll bet you a million dollars he'll start coming to you and trying to break those boundaries - because he's counting on you to be his cheerleader for his new single lifestyle. Don't give him that. You were his cheerleader when he was all-in on the marriage.  He's not now, and he knew when he decided to reveal all of this to you that he wasn't going to have you as a cheerleader - because he has no right to that.  That won't mean that he's not delusional about what he has a right to now. Or that he has the strength to resist asking you repeatedly to be the cheerleader.  But if you announce your intent to no longer hold the position, and put down your pom-poms and walk off the field, and refuse to return when he asks you to, then it will get easier over time.

I wish you all the best -

Kel
 

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Last edited by Duped (August 26, 2019 2:29 pm)

It is such a hard time, addie.
I can't speak for everyone, of course, but it is not about the issue, but rather about the behaviour. One can never choose one's thoughts and feelings but I truly believe that everyone can choose their behaviour. I can certainly understand the angst my former husband must have gone through. I do not understand the choices he made in the way he behaved. I'm sure that many others feel the same.
Having said that, there must be people who handle this with a great deal of consideration and thought for the people they spent most of their lives with. Your husband sounds like he may fall in to that category. But it is a very long process with many difficult times and behaviours can change as you deal with dividing property, dealing with your children's confusion and everyone is just urging you to focus on yourself. Yours and your children's welfare is the most important now.
Your husband has known about this for longer than you (or your children) have. For the moment, you need to focus upon you.
I sincerely hope that his considerate behaviour continues. And it is very hard to just cut off caring for someone. But now is a time to put your needs first.

Hi Addie,

I know it's all so hard to come to terms with. And that sometimes - even when we think that jumping into the cold water is inevitable - we don't want to jump just yet.  We aren't ready for the shock of that cold water. But know that it never does get any easier. It's always going to be shockingly cold. There is no way to truly prepare for the shock. We think that we can steel ourselves for it - that we can "get ready" - but really, we can't.  That being said, only you can decide when to take the big breath and jump. Just know that going in one inch at a time isn't less shocking - it just prolongs the pain so that you feel it inch-by-inch. 

Some people know with that first revelation that they need to jump immediately. Others can't disconnect enough to decide to do something they don't want in the first place. And therein lies the problem - if you wait for it to strike you, it won't - not on its own.  What will happen is that your spouse will just keep doing whatever they want until you're so crushed that you have to jump just to preserve yourself.  Not unlike jumping off a sinking ship. If you stay on, it will pull you under when it goes down.  Some of us stay on so long that when we finally decide that we need to jump, we feel that we can't - we're so worn down from the worry and heartbreak and treading water that we feel that we don't have the strength and self-confidence to do so.  I was nearly there - I felt my strength draining, and decided that if I waited any longer, I wouldn't have what it took when I no longer had a choice. So I jumped when the last of my strength was left - fearing that if I waited a minute longer, I'd never make the swimming it'd take to swim to shore.  And was surprised that instead of my strength being used up after I started swimming, I felt my muscles strengthening with each stroke.  I'd never lacked the strength after all - I lacked the confidence that I had the necessary strength in the first place. Boy-oh-boy was I surprised to learn how strong I was!

We here do understand - because we've all been in your shoes - that you still love your spouse and don't see him as the villain that you might think we see him as.  But please understand that from the outside looking in - and without having feelings for your spouse the way you do - we see things from a different perspective.  You say he's asking nothing of you. But is that true? He MUST have asked you to tolerate him seeing other people and potentially sleeping with them while still remaining married to you.  Is that fair to you?  No.  It is YOU who has the choice and voice to tell him if that's okay with you or not. If it's not - and it must not be, because it bothers you (and that's OKAY), then you could ask him to refrain from starting his new life until the two of you divorce.  If he says okay and then does it, then he'd be considering your feelings correctly.  He made a commitment to you. Asking him to keep it until the "contract" of marriage is over is not unreasonable.  If he says no, or says yes but doesn't honor that commitment, then yes - he IS asking something of you. He's asking for your permission to treat you as if his needs are more important than his. You do NOT have to give it to him.  He says he NEEDS this.  Well,.... what if YOU NEED your spouse to remain faithful? Think on that for a moment.

You don't get a choice if he decides he's going to move on from the marriage.  However, even that is asking something of you. It's asking you to understand that he's decided that your marriage isn't as important as his own needs are. Isn't that a BIG ask? You may have no choice in these decisions, but you don't need to see it as him having asked you nothing.  He's asking you to graciously accept being abandoned.  He's asking you to be fine with breaking the family up. He's asking you to be okay with him having been dishonest with you about who he was at his core. NONE of that is okay. And it's fine - and healthy - for you to be angry about all of it.  What would it mean if you weren't?  That you are just a rug to be walked on? That people can commit things to you and just change their mind and it's okay?  That you aren't worth being honest with and committed to?  You need to see your place in all of this. So many times we straight spouses share similar traits - it what made us such a good choice for our gay-in-denial spouses in the first place.  We are accepting, sacrificing, forgiving, eternally hopeful. We're fixers. They keep expecting us to be those things to them - even while they rip apart our relationship at the seams. And why should we let someone use our hearts against us that way - as weapons? WHY is it okay for them to do the worst things to us, and we're still expected to behave as if what they're doing is benign? It's not healthy for US, and it's unreasonable of them to ask it of us. It's taking advantage of our soft hearts to do that. If we did that to someone, we'd fully expect them to be pissed off.  We would not expect them to be kind and gracious and help us in our journey to find our way away from them. Because that would be unreasonable.

I know you love him. I know you see him as being kind to you in this. Because you can think of worse ways for him to act, and he's not doing those things.  That does NOT mean that what he's doing is nothing, hon.  That's like a 300-lb. person watching "My 600 Pound Life" and thinking, "I don't have a problem with my weight".  It's not supposed to be comparative - a problem isn't only a problem if it's worse than the worst-case scenario.

I know this is so hard.  I really do.  We all do.  The beginning is the hardest for most of us - because of all the realizations we have to come to in seeing our situation for what it really is.  And making hard decisions to do hard things when we'd rather not change a damned thing.  It's okay to be broken right now - if you weren't, you wouldn't be healthy.

All my best -

Kel