OurPath Open Forum

This Open Forum is funded and administered by OurPath, Inc., (formerly the Straight Spouse Network). OurPath is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that provides support to Straight Partners and Partners of Trans People who have discovered that their partner is LGBT+. Your contribution, no matter how small, helps us provide our community with this space for discussion and connection.


BE A DONOR >>>


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



June 18, 2018 7:28 am  #1081


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

I don't fit those categories Sean, with the exception of "your intuition onwards" which pretty much describes the last year. We had a very active sex life pre marriage and right up to when the kids were born. It was pretty good to start with, although the years when our children were small right up to when they left home were difficult. I know know thats when he started looking at porn, when our youngest was only 5. It coincided with our getting our first home computer.
It picked up a bit after the kids had left although I dont think I was ever really satisfied.

I've just read this back and realised something I hadn't noticed before. We were married nearly 27 years and the problems started after only 2 years! Holy crap. I hadn't worked it out before. I then had (let me work this out again), 19 years of intermittent mostly unsatisfying sex. Bloody hell. Followed by ok sex for the last 18 months. So that makes 3 and a half years out of 27? Have I got that right? 
Oh and one other thing I've just realised. He used to "accidentally" try anal only move it when I told him. Jeez.
Thanks for this-its made me look back honestly.

Oh and I've just ordered my first vibrator! Lol.

 

June 18, 2018 8:40 am  #1082


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you everyone for sharing. If you're new to this thread, we were discussing a recent post. Here is the post link: http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=14837#p14837. In brief I wrote about how similar gay-in-denial husbands and gay/straight relationships are. In response to your comments: 

Lily wrote: "It [divorce] has been over 4 years now. He is in the closet, he poked his nose out for two weeks - he told me he was bisexual, that meant he was special, it meant he had a choice, and it was none of my business.  and when I kept on saying whatever it was bisexual wasn't straight and he should have told me he changed his mind, told me he was 100% straight and I would be considered deranged if I thought different. That is not an idle threat.  It is amazing the way people believe him and think he is such a nice man.  It is an enduring relief to be divorced. He loves his closet, maintaining his closet is his prime motivation - when I said he poked his nose out, not really, he was simply attempting to maintain it by retaining the marriage. He hated me for the financial hit of divorce but that's nothing to how he responded when I spoke openly about him being gay after we had separated.  He likes to charm any women who are friends or associates with me and then turn them against me.  Highly successful at it, the fact that it is to their detriment too is a bonus for him, he doesn't actually like them. I have finally realised how he has been playing these sorts of games all along and no wonder I was hurting so much and it's all him.  I've stopped blaming myself for feeling bad.  It doesn't matter what you do, if someone wants to hurt you it hurts." 

Wow. He sounds like a monster Lily. I don't know why but I always thought you'd separated/divorced earlier. I didn't realize it had been just four years. Your point about him turning friends and associates against you sounds familiar. I've read heart-breaking posts of straight wives who were shunned and punished for daring to even mention their husbands were gay. Sadly, many of these people who shun and punish are his family & friends. I'm now starting to believe that having a gay-in-denial husband warps reality. The denial is so deep and systemic, pre-dating even the straight wife's arrival, that any spouse who tries to pierce through that denial often gets clapped down...or even slapped around, by her husband and his allies. Thanks for posting Lily. I've learned something.

Kathyd wrote: "Just like LIly's GIDX, mine was very good at schmoozing the ladies and had lots of women "friends" at work.  They all thought he was so handsome, so nice and couldn't possibly be gay.   If they only knew.  A sock puppet as well."   

Thanks for sharing Kathyd. In my experience, women generally "let their hair down" with gay men. For example, when I tell female clients that I'm gay, in short order they often tell me EVERYTHING about themselves. This phenomenon is something I've discussed many times with my boyfriend and gay friends. So I can easily see a gay-in-denial husband using these skills to turn friends and family against his straight spouse, particularly when she's about to reveal he's gay. 

Greyhoundgal wrote: "I don't fit those categories Sean, with the exception of "your intuition onwards" which pretty much describes the last year. We had a very active sex life pre marriage and right up to when the kids were born. It was pretty good to start with, although the years when our children were small right up to when they left home were difficult. I know know thats when he started looking at porn, when our youngest was only 5. It coincided with our getting our first home computer. It picked up a bit after the kids had left although I dont think I was ever really satisfied. I've just read this back and realised something I hadn't noticed before. We were married nearly 27 years and the problems started after only 2 years! Holy crap. I hadn't worked it out before. I then had (let me work this out again), 19 years of intermittent mostly unsatisfying sex. Bloody hell. Followed by ok sex for the last 18 months. So that makes 3 and a half years out of 27? Have I got that right? Oh and one other thing I've just realised. He used to "accidentally" try anal only move it when I told him. Jeez. Thanks for this-its made me look back honestly. Oh and I've just ordered my first vibrator! Lol."

Thanks for sharing this fascinating insight Greyhoundgal. If I'm reading this correctly, you started off by writing that your sex life was fine, then ok, and then upon deeper reflection you realized it was truly ok for about 2 years, then not so great thereafter (19 years apparently). Good on you for looking at the facts...and for buying your first vibrator!

I've read similar posts from straight spouses clearly trapped in their husband's dark closets. And the denial isn't just about their sex lives. In an exchange of posts on this thread, there was a straight spouse who continued to claim her gay-in-denial husband was still a "good guy" even though he had AIDS, clearly from years of unprotected gay sex, and might have even given it to her. That's monstrous. BUT what I find most helpful about this forum is that straight spouses find a safe and honest place to share what's going on, often for the first time. Your recent comments remind me about just how manipulative gay-in-denial husbands (like I was) can be. That's why I think it's so important to focus on facts, rather than spin. And the facts don't lie. If your husband no longer has sex with you, watches gay porn, spends hours cruising for male-on-male sex, and has cheated on you with men, he's as gay as a rainbow. And if he DARES to try and explain away all of this or, worse, make you feel like ANY of this is your fault, he's also a rainbow-coloured *sshole. End of rant!  

Last edited by Sean (June 18, 2018 8:42 am)

 

June 18, 2018 9:37 am  #1083


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Some observations:

Yeah, Sean, a monster in the closet.  Because that's what the closet makes of men: monsters.  "Deep and systemic" the warping is, all right, and those of us who try to built a life with someone who is that warped are building our marriages on a faultline--at first little slippages that keep us scrambling or thinking the ground is just not solid underneath us but we must be imagining it, and then major shaking and upheaval of the ground under our feet.  

   Women let their hair down with gay men because one, we don't have anything to fear from them (we're safe from the predations of their sexual interest), and two, unlike with other women, there's none of that patriarchally-inspired competition for male attention. 

 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (July 1, 2018 8:38 am)

 

June 18, 2018 9:50 am  #1084


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks OOHC. I hope life is getting better, and clearer, now that you're living on your own. I loved this:

"Deep and systemic" the warping is...

Sounds very Yoda-like. May the force be with us all my friend. Thinking of you. 

 

June 18, 2018 10:14 am  #1085


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean, I can identify with the phrase rainbow colored a—hole. My GIDH  has turned all the evidence I discovered and continues to minimize, shifts the blame and now blames me for no sex for 10 years because he claims I didn’t desire him sexually and that “we” have a communication problem. He manipulated his therapist to try to convince me he just has a “fetish” with anal stimulation and that he is not gay.  He claims he not only looks at gay porn but heterosexual porn also, like that is ok, but I only found gay porn. I have heard “only one “ encounter with a man. He will continue to deny and deny. It helps so much being separated, it is the only way I can keep my sanity.

 

June 18, 2018 2:32 pm  #1086


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Lily if you don't mind me asking, why do they love their closet?  I hear that expression alot but don't quite understand the full meaning.  I mean, my GIDH hates himself for the fact that he's gay I believe so why do they love their closet?   It's so infuriating that other people think I said he was gay because I was so hurt and that was the only way I could deal with it.  His people don't believe me either.  FUCK THEM.  They never gave a shit about me anyway.  I was just "his wife".  UGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Sean you're so right about why he tends to be every woman's confidant!  If he only knew that it was a red flag.  I bet it would stop right away.   He loves the attention he gets from them too much to stop.  

Last edited by Kathyd (June 18, 2018 2:44 pm)


WTF
 

June 18, 2018 3:31 pm  #1087


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks Violated and Kathyd for posting. In response to your questions Kathyd: 

"Why do they love their closet?  I hear that expression a lot but don't quite understand the full meaning.  I mean, my GIDH hates himself for the fact that he's gay I believe so why do they love their closet?

Before answering your questions, please keep in mind that I'm not a mental health professional. I'm just a formerly gay-in-denial husband/father sharing his own personal journey. So gage my opinions/comments accordingly.

1.
Why do they love their closet? 

That's a very good question. Like your husband, I actually hated myself but loved both the approval, secrecy and conformity my closet provided. I loved the conformity of having a wife and children. I so wanted to be straight that I hid a part of myself for most of my life. Something happened in my childhood or a series of events happened that led me to believe that my homosexuality was wrong, very wrong. So I hid it and continued to hide it for the better part of 35 years. I didn't just hide in a closet, I built the damn thing. 

2. I mean, my GIDH hates himself for the fact that he's gay I believe so why do they love their closet?

Maybe "cell" is a better word than closet. A prisoner hates his cell and often longs for freedom. But once out, he wants just one thing, the safety and security of his former cell. I reckon that's what the closet is for gay men, a cell. Whenever I meet someone, watch an interview, or read something online by a violently homophobic person, I now just assume he/she is gay-in-denial (GID). I reckon we often hate things about ourselves to a point that we obsess about such things in others...and even attack them for it. My former father-in-law was obsessed with his weight. He'd constantly ridicule other people for being fat. I think this is why so many GID husbands are homophobic. The logic goes something like: no one will suspect I'm a homo if I'm the biggest anti-gay bigot in town. But I digress. At first, I hated myself for being gay. Then I hated myself for failing as a husband. (And I failed as a husband because I had ZERO desire for, nor attraction to, my beautiful wife.) The self-hatred is compounded when we get caught cheating or watching gay porn. Why? It's one thing to hate yourself in the confines of your own closet, but it's next-level hatred wondering if your entire world is going to collapse when everyone learns you're a 'disgusting f*ggot.' The one thing we were really good at doing was pretending. GID husbands are very good at pretending to be straight. Whenever there were other people around, I was a master at pretending to be the best husband and father possible. I loved the approval. But once my audience left, I'd slink back into the closet to watch more gay porn.

My entire life was about one thing: hiding my real sexuality. I didn't so much love the closet but needed the cover it provided. And we desperately need our straight wives to stay closeted. So the closet is really a lie, and I guess my former wife was a kind of doorman guarding my secret. I reckon the problems begin when straight spouses stop guarding our closet doors. And things really get messy when straight wives try to kick down the closet door. The closet is just a metaphor for a lifelong lie. So I guess a gay-in-denial husband's first love is his secret. Our closets are what spend a lifetime building to protect that secret. Does that make any sense? I hope so. 

I hope that answered your questions Kathyd. If not, just write again!

Last edited by Sean (June 18, 2018 3:36 pm)

 

June 18, 2018 7:20 pm  #1088


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Why do they love their closet?  I think the one word answer is chemistry.

I think they're getting a constant dose of oxytocin out of it.  some sort of endogenous opioid anyway.  And that, I think is how come they can be so charming - the internal chemistry of lying.  

Perhaps you could say lying a lot about things that really hurt bad is stimulating an internal reward.  Like exercise and endorphins.  I don't know exactly and I now know I don't know so much I can't actually imagine what its like to be him.

Emotionally speaking I thought it would be better for him as well as me once we were apart and there wasn't someone living right next to him pressing on his closet walls, forcing him to lie a lot but I was entirely wrong about that.  

We can't imagine what it's like because we're built different.  Yes I like my endogenous opiates as much as anybody else but to get it out of harming someone instead of loving them is well I just can't wrap my head round it either.

At one time I was always trying to get him to talk, to open up with me and eventually I was pleading with him and he told me not to be emotional and walked off saying don't burst my bubble.  One of those few more honest things he said.

I felt guilty at the time, now remembering it I am sad for myself, wasn't he horrible.  There was a time my nickname for him (never spoken aloud) was bubble boy.  I came to realise it wasn't me doing something wrong he just would never care about me.  But if I tried to leave, there'd be trouble.

As their wives we are not just their 'beard', not just there for appearances sake.  We are supply.  We're providing the extra-good stimulation - they're not just deceiving their neighbours, they're deceiving the person who is up close and personal.  It is hurting us and they know but don't care, sadly I think it must be the cherry on the cake for them.

And I think this is why it's so hard to tell - far from alleviating him of stress, you are threatening him with the loss of supply in opening up the closet.

I think the men like Sean who find love with another man are the better ones.  The more sexually repressed and reliant on the closet for the good feelings they are, the more monstrous they become.  And I think it's a process that is ongoing through the generations.

Seeing as I've got this far I will also say I think staying with a gid is a hiding to nowhere, and if you thought it was bad before you know, once he knows you know it is not like sharing a secret with a friend who is likely to love you more it is the opposite.  well that's been my experience anyway.  It's just been so good to have this time away from him, I am sitting on my sunny verandah with the cat.  Almost immediately I fell in love with a straight man and tho it hasn't worked out to be together which was/is so painful it is a clean pain, and it's also been wonderful.

Last edited by lily (June 18, 2018 7:36 pm)

 

June 18, 2018 7:37 pm  #1089


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean, just read your post.  thank you it was so good to read.

 

June 19, 2018 6:21 am  #1090


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks Lily. I liked that image of you quietly drinking tea on your verandah. This passage struck me:

"We can't imagine what it's like [to be closeted] because we're built different.  Yes I like my endogenous opiates as much as anybody else but to get it out of harming someone instead of loving them is well I just can't wrap my head round it either. At one time I was always trying to get him to talk, to open up with me and eventually I was pleading with him and he told me not to be emotional and walked off saying don't burst my bubble.  One of those few more honest things he said. I felt guilty at the time, now remembering it I am sad for myself, wasn't he horrible.  There was a time my nickname for him (never spoken aloud) was bubble boy.  I came to realise it wasn't me doing something wrong he just would never care about me.  But if I tried to leave, there'd be trouble. As their wives we are not just their 'beard', not just there for appearances sake.  We are supply.  We're providing the extra-good stimulation - they're not just deceiving their neighbours, they're deceiving the person who is up close and personal. It is hurting us and they know but don't care, sadly I think it must be the cherry on the cake for them."

Scary but true. I've read a lot about narcissism in an attempt to understand my own gay-in-denial (GID) narcissism. What you've shared sounds similar to a relationship with a toxic narcissist or even a sociopath. I characterize these relationships as "conditional love" because narcs and sociopaths don't have real feelings. They only want a constant supply of love and adulation. In my own gay/straight marriage, it went something like this: I'll continue to act like I love you as long as you go along pretending this fake relationship is a marriage. Put bluntly, once a straight wife starts making things difficult for her GID husband, namely by asking "Are you gay?" while also demanding love and affection, that's when he either walks from the relationship, punishes her (like Lily's ex-husband), or bludgeons his wife back into the closet. Thanks again for sharing Lily, although I'm sorry your ex-husband is such a wanker. Be well!   

 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum