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March 15, 2018 11:07 pm  #11


Re: Being Held Hostage

Thank you, Jen. It would be so much easier if I did not love him. But exactly what you have been thru, he is putting me thru, I even took notes and wrote down what he said during our phone conversations, and then he still denied it. 

I have 2 options:

If I stay with him , we are roommates, best buddies, we have good times together.  But I don't believe I could be intimate with him, there is no trust.

Or I divorce him, live alone, establish a new life......and have HOPE, just maybe even at 63 years old, I could find someone who not only loves me but desires me as a women intimately.  

There is no easy choice, it takes courage to stay and courage to leave.

 

March 16, 2018 9:17 am  #12


Re: Being Held Hostage

CindyS
   Although it may feel like it, you don't need an admission.  What you need is to ask yourself a series of questions: 

Am I ok with the current state of my marriage?  [clearly you're not]

Am I ok knowing that this state of things is going to be "the new normal"?  [clearly you're not]

Does knowing what I know change the way I think about my spouse?  [clearly it has; you no longer trust him]

Living in my marriage in its current state, knowing it will never change, and knowing what I do about my spouse, can I realistically believe I can continue to see my spouse as my "best buddy" and "have good times" together?  

You know my story.  Three years after his disclosure, I am now in the process of divorce. Today I sign a lease on an apartment.  Next week I begin moving out.  
  Now that I have made the leap, I understand that part of what held me back was that I could see very clearly the losses, which were identifiable and tangible--loss of company, loss of financial comfort (I will still be financially stable, but I will relinquish the privilege of comfort), an envisioned future I had every expectation would materialize.
    But what I could not see as clearly, and therefore could not weigh with the same emotional measure, is what possibilities might be in my future.  It is a leap of faith to jump from the known into the unknown.  You take it when you reach the point--if you reach that point--that certainty--staying in an unsatisfactory and unsatisfying marriage with a man in whom you've lost all trust and for whom you've lost all respect--becomes more intolerable than the uncertainty of a future you can't yet paint a mental picture of.  You leave when you know you have no HOPE that life at home will change, and that your HOPES can have a chance of being realized only when you leave.  You have to trust yourself, have belief in yourself, and that trust and belief is hard to summon up when life with our gaslighting, blameshifting spouses have beaten us down.  

   It is a point of pride with me that I want to believe that I am just not the kind of person who could tolerate the compromise with myself that staying would entail.  I knew what I had already compromised, and how doing so reduced me to a shadow of my former self; I could not knowingly commit myself to continue life in a situation in which I would continue to be beaten down, and would know I was by staying willingly compromising myself, for what amounted to life with a disordered man I no longer respected, trusted, or liked.  I've heard it here and elsewhere: just because you love someone, it doesn't mean the love is good for you.  Fortunately, their own actions toward us serve to kill that love, little by little.  
   I debased and compromised myself for my stbx, all in the name of love and in service to being a good wife, and what I got in return was to be asked to continue to debase and compromise myself.  He would not meet my love and sacrifice with reciprocity.  It was all selfishness and demands.
     I decided I want my self respect back--I want myself back!  I knew I wasn't going to get that by staying.  I'm 64; I have, touch wood, a good 20 years of vigorous life left); I was not--I am not--willing to spend it as dead wood. 

   Yesterday, I was invited to the local senior center by a retired colleague/friend to the weekly jam session of a group of guys with whom he plays guitar there.  I sat in the small audience of friends and other "seniors" who had wandered in, and I thought two things: one, this is what normal men are like and how they behave and relate to one another--how refreshing!; and 2) what a great place this is; I wonder what else they have going on?  It was a small glimpse into the concrete reality of what could be part of my life now that I've made the decision to shape my life to my own pattern and liking.  It was part of what I hadn't been able to see before, and so couldn't weigh against what I knew I would be leaving.


  

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (March 16, 2018 9:23 am)

 

March 16, 2018 10:24 am  #13


Re: Being Held Hostage

CindyS,

One of the things you said above stuck out to me - because I had the same narrative in my mind for over a decade, using the same words: "If I stay with him, we are roommates, best buddies, we have good times together. But I don't believe I could be intimate with him, there is no trust.

Or I divorce him, live alone, establish a new life......and have HOPE, just maybe even at 63 years old, I could find someone who not only loves me but desires me as a women intimately."

I wasn't 63, I was 40. But I still felt like it was something that couldn't happen - not because of my age so much as everything else; I was (and am) severely overweight at 300 lbs. I'm loud, obnoxious and stubborn. I had three children - then ages 7, 9 and 13. The oldest had (and still has) behavioral and mental health issues - to the point where my home was like a war zone a lot of days. My ex was gay. His mother still lived with me, and was ill. A male friend of the family lived with me, too. My ex wasn't going to provide much in the way of support. I had zero savings, was always behind the 8-ball on bills, and had some physical challenges (most notably a really bad knee) that made my lifestyle a little.... sedentary.  Now, I'm not TRYING to put myself down. I had and have other wonderful attributes, too.  I'm a hard worker, I'm a good mother, I can cook and clean and I clean up nice. I have a large support network and a big personality and a huge sense of humor, as well as a lot of strength. But c'mon - what kind of chances did I have for finding love again (all the way to marriage and a traditional life) with someone when I had all that baggage and stuff that wasn't attractive?  Boy-oh-BOY was I surprised to see how popular I was despite all that baggage!  Turns out most men who've been through life just want a good woman who's honest, isn't there to take advantage of anyone, and is fun to be around. And I dated a LOT of really nice men - some crazy, some needy, some that were just looking to get their rocks off.  BUT..... I found the one - and I found him REALLY quickly. And we're going on 5 years this summer of wedded bliss.  I'm not talking about the kind of man a "fat girl" can get - the kind that is interested in a relationship but just sits on his ass and watches TV all the time with a beer in his hand.  I'm talking about the kind of man who every woman I know wishes she were with.  And every man I know says he's a good guy. The kind of guy that my brothers pat on the back and hug when they see him, because he's freaking awesome.  If Iiiiii could find that, then you can, too.  There are men your age who are normal and nice and would love to have a good woman like you. They.are.out.there - just like you are.

When I was in your shoes, I was looking at my options like you are: I can either stay here - with what MIGHT be the best man I'll ever be able to get - and choose to be happy with what we DO have - a friendship, a buddy, a father to my children - OR I could leave for what might be nothing.  If faced with that choice, the answer seems obvious - you'd stay.  But then I turned it around the other way and I swear it made ALL the difference:  I could leave, and maybe never find what I'm looking for. OR.... I could stay, and KNOW that I'm never going to find what I'm looking for - because it's.not.here.  Faced with THAT choice, my chances for finding happiness were better if I left.  I was ASSURED to not find happiness if I stayed.  So I left. And I found everything I was looking for and more - I found things I never even thought to wish for.

Kel
 


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

March 16, 2018 11:03 pm  #14


Re: Being Held Hostage

Out of his closet and Kel, thank you so much for your responses. You both sound so strong and positive. Your words have encouraged me and provided me with such comfort. Thank you.

I decided it is time for me to separate from my H. I told him tonight to find an apartment and move w/i 2-3 weeks. I need time to think and figure out what is best for me. The first time in my life I only have to think about what is best for me. It is so hard because I do love him, but your words, "just because you love someone doesn't mean the love is good for you." That has caused me to pause. I do care about him and hate to see how he is hurting but he is clueless to the pain he has caused me, he just continues to minimize his behavior, makes excuses, claims he did not say what he said. I am at the point where I don't care if he is bicurious or bisexual, or gay or straight, those are his issues. My issues are trust and betrayal.

So your notes, gave me what I needed this evening.....HOPE. I am holding onto HOPE........hope for a fulfilling life....hope for a happy life. Hope that I can live my truth. Hope I can forgive. 

Hugs, Cindy

     Thread Starter
 

March 17, 2018 9:13 am  #15


Re: Being Held Hostage

cindys
   I know that was a hard decision to make, and although it feels right, it also hurts.  It hurts to find out that our "clueless" husbands, who we think will change if only we tell them how much they are hurting us, are quite willing to go on hurting us; they aren't "clueless" in the sense of "not knowing," but "clueless" in the sense of "indifferent."  They're indifferent to our pain, because their closet means more to them than we do.  
  I'm sure you'll doubt yourself and your decision, and consider taking it back, many times, even after he moves out.  Doubt comes from the same place as our impulse to stay with them; it comes from our questioning ourselves in favor of giving them the benefit of the doubt.  If you make a list of his lies/gaslighting and what you know to be true, it will be helpful to you in those times of doubt. 
   He'll also be trying hard to hoover you back in, and that may take the form of love-bombing or just trying to wear you down with unwanted contact.  I can't say strongly enough that "no contact" is the way to peace and happiness.  The less you see and talk to him, the more you will recover your sense of yourself and your equilibrium.  And I am betting that once he's gone and out of the house you will begin to do just that.
   Congratulations on taking the hardest step.  

 

March 17, 2018 2:23 pm  #16


Re: Being Held Hostage

Cindys you have made such a good decision and in the middle of all your emotions and the confusion and hurt and gaslighting you have done it. It is a fight to get to this place, I just wanted to say good for you, really, you did the right thing for yourself. Awesome.

 

March 17, 2018 11:47 pm  #17


Re: Being Held Hostage

OOHC, I did make a list, and it does help to keep what I know to be true. Those "doubts" do creep in.

Duped, I need this separation......I need to clear my head....and hopefully, this separation will guide me in the right direction to take the next step.......give me answers.

     Thread Starter
 

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