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February 19, 2018 3:27 pm  #11


Re: Tactics

To be honest - the dating thing is so Not ridiculous.  Yes you are not ready to form a new relationship - still married let alone recovered.  But you are ready to dream and that's an important part of it.  If your instinct is taking you that way then look in that direction.

Your wife's mum is likely to stick up for her daughter isn't she, she's likely to say don't be angry at my daughter, she didn't mean to hurt you, I mean she barely hurt you at all really, she just accidentally met this woman and she's still 90 percent the lovely woman you married so please give her 90 percent of your money while she accidentally divorces you.

I was born in the UK and moved to Australia with my closet gay spouse.  When it came to divorce I said you are the one who was born here, you have all the family.  So I think it's fair for me to stay in the house.  Not a bit of it.  No mercy shown.  

Still I felt the bit of sympathy.  It didn't occur to me to think he's not being sympathetic to me.  I didn't feel the love tho - that was over, he'd used all my love up, I was emotionally detached I guess, I felt like an observer and I'd seen this crabby Dalek come crawling out of it's shell.

Main thing is to keep listening to your family and friends and stick with the legal advice.   

wishing you all the best, Lily

 

February 19, 2018 4:06 pm  #12


Re: Tactics

lily wrote:

Your wife's mum is likely to stick up for her daughter isn't she, she's likely to say don't be angry at my daughter, she didn't mean to hurt you, I mean she barely hurt you at all really, she just accidentally met this woman and she's still 90 percent the lovely woman you married so please give her 90 percent of your money while she accidentally divorces you.

I'm cracking up in the middle of a meeting at work today..  geez..  that's so funny the way you wrote that. 

 


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 

February 19, 2018 4:08 pm  #13


Re: Tactics

I agree with Lily. Meeting people is very healthy. If you feel like meeting people, do so. Draw a line in the sand. Make friends, have fun, don't jump into a relationship. Meeting people is just that - meeting people, not barreling into a relationship while still tangled up in this one.

I went out, met some nice people, had some enjoyable times. It was a wonderful feeling to remember, oh right, there ARE still normal, healthy people out there! Oh right, I do really enjoy getting to know someone!

I'd say it was very centering for me to engage in a bit of nonserious dating.

All the best.

 

February 19, 2018 4:11 pm  #14


Re: Tactics

There is no right and wrong answers in this scenario.  It's whatever works for the two of you.  If you both choose to not date until you separate, and then separation is a long way off, it can make things kind of stall out - where no one is willing to rock the boat and make changes because there's no driving force to do so.  That's only if one/both of you isn't chomping on the bit to get back out there - otherwise that can be the driving force to move forward.  But if you both abstain and both have no desire to date others, it can become a case of not knowing when to pull the trigger.

If both of you dates, it can be easier.  In that situation, I'd recommend that you NOT speak to each other about it.  My ex and I dated after we announced that we were divorcing but before he moved out, and he kept wanting details on my dates and kept trying to tell me details on his.  At that point I knew he was gay.  And I had been "over" him for a looooong time.  However, seeing him happier with men than I'd ever seen him with me made me feel like crap - like the entire time I'd been holding onto this thing because he was saying HE was happy, and he never truly was.  So I'd wasted years, and then everything in my past seemed like a big, fat lie.  I'm not sure why my ex wanted details of my dating life, but I refused to believe that's what he really wanted, and didn't tell him.  I could see no purpose it served.  He kept trying to tell me that we were friends (him and I), and that friends talk about such things.  He was never my friend though - never what I considered my friend.  He claimed I was his best friend though - so he just didn't have anyone else to gush to.  So be it.  I'm not the person that he needed to be doing that to.

If you choose the above route, then there needs to be ground rules.  Like..... each of you should have time to go out and the other parent will stay home with the kids.  No calls to each other unless it's an emergency.  Meaning someone's in the hospital or the entire household is sick and vomiting or something.  Have an agreement about what time each of you has to go out - is it from 8 pm until 2 am?  Because if you don't tell her that she has to come home, she just won't.  And then she's not around in the morning, and the kids are asking where she is, and you need to lie to them about it.  Not good.  Happened to me.  Eventually my rule was, "You need to be home before the first kid gets up".  That was around 7 am in my home.  Unfortunately, he didn't abide by the agreement, and then I was left lying to the kids.  And he figured out that I really couldn't do anything about it, so he just kept doing it.  But..... it was more fuel to get the show on the road, for me.

You should not need to tell each other where you're going, or with whom.  She should NOT get to go out on a night that is earmarked as yours.  Otherwise you won't have plans, and she'll be taking all that time too.  Because...... why not?  So agree on days that you each have, and the ground rules for what to tell the kids and when you each need to be back.  And then you don't need to tell each other anything other than "I'll be home for dinner", and "I'm leaving now".  Tha't.s.IT.  On your nights, LEAVE.  I don't care if you drive around for 2 hours, or stop at the library, or go hand at a local bar.  Go take your time.  Do not be the guy who never goes out and who has to suffer through knowing what she's doing.  NEITHER of you should know when the other leaves the house if you're going on a date or going to read a book in a parking lot.  Keep it that way.

Lastly, create some space at home for each of you.  It's necessary in order to cohabitate when you're no longer actively working on the marriage.  There comes a point where you have no reason to make sacrifices any longer for the sake of their feelings or the sake of the relationship - it's over.  And at that point, it can get very difficult when you come to a disagreement - you just want to say "Fuck you!" to everything.  So you need to create separate spaces for yourselves.  Separate sleeping spaces is paramount to this working.  If you don't have a spare bedroom to do this in, then figure something else out - even if it's one of you sleeping on the couch.  Do NOT both sleep in the same bed.  If you do have separate bedrooms / spaces, then take your stuff there and get dressed in that space after showering, etc.  Close your door whenever you're in (or not in) the room.  Insist that your spouse knocks and asks permission to come in.  After the kids are in bed, go to that space when you want to get away from your spouse in a common area.  Make it your respite.  That's where you'll have phone conversations, watch TV, etc.  Use your time to take things to your space and start sorting through it all.  No.More.Physical.Affection.  No more "I love you's".  No more communicating past common courtesy unless it's imperative (like to sort stuff out, talk about the kids, etc.)  No more buying things for the household beyond groceries and whatever's absolutely necessary.  No more household projects unless it's good for re-sale (if that's the route you decide to go).  No more investing in your life together.  Start going to family parties separately.  My ex stopped going to my family's holidays and birthdays - even though his family had nothing of the sort since they lived out of state.  He would then try to spend time with the kids separately on those holidays, or take them out to a restaurant for it.  Separate celebrations.  The kids don't even have to understand (unless they're much older) what's going on - this is just what's happening.  If you must go to the same event (like a school play), one of you take the kids, the other show up separately.  Or one of you take a kid each and then meet up with the kids sitting between you.  Create.Space.

Start working on a vision board.  Look at what you want your life to look like.  Start dreaming, planning, and doing things that interest you personally.  Take the kids with if that works.  Do this separately.  Take them to the movies when it's their mom's night out.  Or take them out on a Sunday afternoon and let them picnic for a few hours.  Get them used to spending time with just one parent at a time.  "Mommy needed some time to do some of her stuff" is all you need to say, or vice versa.  "Daddy has plans with a friend".  Etc.

Best of luck to you.  You do not have to date until you feel ready.  She will likely feel ready before you do - she's got a whole new identity to learn about and embrace, and she'll be like a teenager again while doing that.

And NO, this didn't just "sneak up on her".  Of COURSE that's what her mother thinks - it's to your ex's benefit to make it look like that to everyone in your life.  To her lesbian friends, she'll be saying that she's always felt this desire, but it's only now that she's finally breaking free.  People who feel attraction to another person don't just end their marriage over it unless they weren't happy anyway - and that happiness (or lack thereof) doesn't necessarily have anything to do with you and how happy YOU made her.  She wasn't honest with herself about who she was and what she wanted.  Just because she can't suppress it any longer doesn't mean it snuck up on her.

Kel
 


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

February 19, 2018 4:46 pm  #15


Re: Tactics

Hi lily..

I value your thoughts but...
I’m sorry but you weren’t there - she was as shocked as me, she held me as I cried.. I value the advice, but I believe my stbxw that this hit her relatively late.. I dunno.. I think for my sanity I need to get a positive relationship with my wife out of this..

Anyway.. I’m coming round to the idea that there was sweet duck all I could have done about this.. that is a good base to build..

     Thread Starter
 

February 19, 2018 5:39 pm  #16


Re: Tactics

Hi kel

Thanks for that post - it’s a real help particularly the rules of cohabitation stuff.. v useful! . Loooong road ahead.

Anyhow, am not going to defend her any longer.. I know what i believe, and I choose to believe that she was genuine when we made our plans... if the truth is somewhat different, it doesn’t matter, for my own sanity I am hanging on to this relationship having had value above and beyond creating my beautiful kids.

     Thread Starter
 

February 19, 2018 6:04 pm  #17


Re: Tactics

Hi Newbornuk,

there was definitely sweet duck all you could have done about this.  

I sympathise with gay people saying that we straights just don't know what it's like for them.  It's true, we expect them to conform to straight behaviour and they can't. 

It's true the other way round.  They don't know what it's like to be straight.  They expect us to be able to handle things the way they can and we can't.

one of the themes that is repeated over and over in these mixed marriages is insanity.  We straights get to feel like we're losing our minds.  We aren't it's just that we are believing stuff that defies the reality of our existence.

yes it's what you see that counts.  

wishing you lots of good luck, all the best, Lily

Last edited by lily (February 19, 2018 6:19 pm)

 

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