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December 6, 2017 12:30 am  #31


Re: New forum section for MOM's

oh yes.  years and years of thinking all marriages were like this, and I should count myself lucky he didn't gamble and did the dishes.

Looking back I can see mainly I coped with the massive deficit of intimacy and affection by my belief that God's love was all I really needed - it was like an insulating bubble.  Kept warm with the love I felt for him, I kept waiting for the love from him that never came.  It felt like a personal failure and went beyond my marriage that I didn't feel loved and happy.

Right in those first hours of realising he really was gay and just not admitting to it I remember thinking quite clearly if not in these words that the integrity of my sexual identity was at stake now, if I wanted to hold onto it, I needed to end the marriage.

Goodness it's a gritty moment isn't it.  Yes a determination you can only make for yourself, and then you need lots of courage and support.

 

December 6, 2017 8:21 am  #32


Re: New forum section for MOM's

   Yes, "years and years" of feeling like "a personal failure," and that was before the trans reveal!  I "coped with" it by thinking it was my fault, that there was something wrong with me. Unfortunately, there are still moments I think that--that I must be a very lousy woman if my husband doesn't even want to be male.  One of the most cruel things my husband did after the reveal, when he was still in the throes of believing the trans narrative of  "a woman in a man's body" and wanting to start living as if he were a woman, was to attack me through my sexuality and my love for him as a male: "I hate," he said, "my penis and balls swinging between my legs," a declaration he later even said was intended to hit me in a way it would hurt most.  (Killing off the "male self," I guess, and thinking that once he'd done that I could simply change my own sexual orientation and start loving him "lesbian" to lesbian--except it was his male self I'd fallen in love with and lived with and loved for over thirty years.)

   I will say this: part of "the journey" I've made to deciding that my own sexual identity is "at stake" and I want to "hold onto it," is that, having heard what I've heard and seen what I've seen since that disclosure, I've gone back and re-evaluated a lot of what I formerly blamed myself for, but realize now wasn't my fault or due to anything faulty in me.  Healing my sense of self helped me understand that I have the right to own my own sexuality and to want to hold onto its integrity.

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (December 6, 2017 8:33 am)

 

December 6, 2017 11:23 am  #33


Re: New forum section for MOM's

Well, I for one have no issue whatsoever with the MOMs having their own space.  I will likely not even read there - not because it doesn't offer an interesting perspective, but because it'll make me want to jump in where I likely have nothing positive (in their opinion) to add.  And that's fine.  I think if the tables were turned and this board was largely a place where individuals present were overridingly for MOMs and they often called out reasons why you were abandoning your vows if you wanted to leave the relationship, it would make sense for a "Questioning" place to exist.  It's a place for the minority - where they can support one another without needing to defend their desire to do so.

My only concern is that when you choose to be a MOM poster, it can be difficult to post elsewhere, too.  I would think one wouldn't want to look like they're not sure about their choice, which means that if they wanted feedback on a broader level than just how to stay in and be in a satisfying MOM, then it may be difficult to post on the other parts of the board without feeling like they've gone against their own conviction.  But that's up to them.  They are certainly welcome to read (even if they don't post) what other threads are on the board.  If they so choose to expose themselves to other viewpoints, it's there for the taking.  If they decide not to, then nothing we say will make any impression anyway - it just causes frustration on everyone's parts.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (December 6, 2017 11:24 am)


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

December 6, 2017 12:34 pm  #34


Re: New forum section for MOM's

Wow. What a lot of posts... I am in a MOM, and planning to stay. Relationships and life are not not binary: 'happy' or 'unhappy'. All relationships are difficult, have down times. Most of the straight couples I know have been through times of major difficulty, often related to infidelity of one of the partners, or at least attractions outside the marriage... And as we all keep saying, no-one else can know what is right for us. I have a good relationship, with total trust. The one black spot is the total lack of sex and desire. So some of the time, I'm OK with that, there are so many other good things in our relationship, in our life together. And then there are times when I'm definitely not happy, not at peace. And that's the way it is and it will be as long as we stay together. In our case, age and finances are important factors, but more, the feeling that we'd be fools to give up the good things that we have and share for a possible new life with new partners not yet found/met. That's why I keep coming here, and that's why I also look at other threads - and will share there too, if I think I have anything helpful to offer. But it's not black and white; the real world rarely is. We chose the least bad way.

 

December 6, 2017 2:35 pm  #35


Re: New forum section for MOM's

  To me making the decision to stay in my marriage isn't a question of "unhappy/unhappy." It's a question of "what are the basic requirements necessary to maximize the chances of a happy marriage," one that can be characterized as a union of two people rather than a yoking together of two people.
   Yes, all relationships have down times.  But for me a marriage between two people whose sexual orientations don't line up is hampered to a degree that I find unacceptable. I can't "mate" (so to speak) with a mate who at a very basic level cannot fully give himself to the union, and who can't engage, genuinely and honestly, in love-making, the act most basically implicated in creating, sustaining, and celebrating that union.  It's not just a question of fulfilling a need for sex; it's a question of whether we can love, fully, knowing that at a fundamental level our mate finds us undesirable and perhaps even repulsive.  That is a barrier to love as well as to the trust reuqired to sustain it. 
    My husband and I get along cordially day to day on a surface level, but each of us is aware that something is being withheld and missed, and that something is a barrier to the closeness we each yearn for.  I'm an intellectual--it's how I make my living--but I don't live only by my intellect and reason; my heart and emotions have to be as satisfied as my reason.
  One thing that's tormented me ever since I engaged in that sex I now know to be an instance of hysterical bonding is that when it happened I thought I was acting in a reasonable way.  Afterwards, too, I looked at what happened and saw all kinds of reasons for it; only later did I come to see that I had acted out of something very different from the reasons I was ascribing to and seeing in it; what I did was rationalize my actions.  
    So when, on this journey, do we know when we are engaging in reasoned observation, and our logic sound, and when we are irrationally rationalizing?  One way, for me, was to read the stories here, which made me confront my assumptions and weigh them.  My hesitation over a MOM thread is informed by that experience: it was too easy to rationalize what wasn't rational, but call it so, because I was still in denial and couldn't bear to consider the end of our marriage.  

 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (December 6, 2017 2:41 pm)

 

December 6, 2017 3:21 pm  #36


Re: New forum section for MOM's

Speaking as a forum member (not in the capacity of admin)...  I agree with you OOHC.   
Today, I can't see how I could possibly exist in a MOM.  I think this forum helped me see things and realize that earlier than I would have on my own.   I think the experience and insight of those of us that have been her a while and lived through it can be a benefit to the new people.  Sometimes it takes a little "tough love".  

I remember wanting to preserve my marriage.  That choice was taken from me when I learned my ex was cheating on me and when she announced she was leaving me and filing for divorce to be with her new lesbian lover.  But if I had learned she was a lesbian a year before that, I most likely would have done everything possible to preserve my marriage.. and at that point in time I wouldn't have been as accepting of the advice that is most often given here.   I know now that it's great advice.. but it's hard to swallow when you aren't ready for it. 

Here's my prediction:
I think those who wish to stay in their marriage will benefit from both the new MOM section and the rest of the forum.  I think they will appreciate the constructive advice given in that area, but I think they will also venture out and at least read a lot of the advice and information given in the rest of the forum.   I don't think the MOM section will be a very busy place.  I think we'll get some new people there, and I think they will appreciate the safety and constructive tone in that area.  But I think they will also venture out and join the rest of the forum.  I think it's a good move for everyone. 
 


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
     Thread Starter
 

December 6, 2017 4:34 pm  #37


Re: New forum section for MOM's

"all relationships have difficulties, have down times"

Brassy - that's the sort of thing that kept me treading water for years.  You can't have an up time after the down time if you can't  get intimate - it's the basic element emotionally speaking.  without it you can't get that fire going again, it's a downhill slide.

What you describe is sometimes called limbo land.  All the justifications in the world to keep you in it and I had them all too.  

wishing you all the best, Lily

 

December 6, 2017 6:25 pm  #38


Re: New forum section for MOM's

Sam (Admin) wrote:

I'm guessing this won't be the most popular comment ever

It'll be a popular comment with all those people wanting to make their mixed orientation r'ship work Sam

And if I was technically savvy enough to have my Login go straight to the MOM section instead of ALL sections..I would!

Last edited by Ellexoh (December 6, 2017 6:30 pm)


KIA KAHA                       
 

October 8, 2020 10:38 am  #39


Re: New forum section for MOM's

I haven’t had time to read through all the posts, but this sounds like a wonderful addition to me. I’m not sure if this has come about in part due to the survey that was emailed out, but I know quite a few people who are interested in maintaining their MOM that have not stuck around because of the negativity. Quite a few have even left after reading the responses to their initial post.

 

October 8, 2020 12:10 pm  #40


Re: New forum section for MOM's

When I saw this post was from this morning, I thought it was about another “new” section. Then, I saw I was reading from 2017. I guess it was resurrected with the current stuff going on. Oh well. Just keep on truckin’.

 

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