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December 19, 2017 12:40 am  #21


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

OutofHisCloset wrote:

It's taken me almost three years!  In the first three months after he disclosed to me he believed he was "transgendered," I was making progreses and plans to leave.  I said I wanted a divorce.  I was grieving, but I was determined.  And then, not knowing about "hoovering" and "love bombing" and "hysterical bonding," I fell right down the rabbit hole, and it took me a good year and a half to claw myself back out.  Thankfully over the time since he first dropped his bomb, March 2015, I have been able to spend long periods of time--months at a time at least twice a year--away from him.  I will again be spending time away in Feb and March, and before I return home, I will be telling him that by the end of summer I want us to to be living apart and divorced.  This has been the hardest thing I've ever done.  
  Watch out for attempts to draw you back in.  And resist them.

OOHC,
I am so sorry. I feel your pain. I know how crushed you feel. You deserve love, happiness and a straight relationship where you feel like the woman. 

What were the signs as you look back?  When did he introduce his sexuality into your relationship? 

my husband says he would never want to be a transgender just wants to have sex with one be a giver and receiver. He hasnt been wearing any underwear or womens clothes in a couple years, says that was a phase. He first introduced it to me by showing me a tranny porn. We had been married for 2 years. 
 

 

December 19, 2017 6:29 am  #22


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Tyurk,
  Out of the blue.  It wasn't introduced to me; he dropped it like a bomb.  After thirty-two years of marriage he announced one day that he was transgender.  When he made the announcement, he said nothing about anything of a sexual nature, but soon, over the next few weeks, as he used me to talk his feelings through (I should have shut that down sooner than I did), the sexual nature of his condition emerged, and he began telling me his sexual fantasies, which were all to do with "acting like the woman" and "being penetrated" and "wanting to be punished" (masochism often accompanies autogynephilia).
  There were no signs at all--he'd been hiding all his explorations from me for two years (while exploring the possibility of his being trans with a former student!).  Or maybe I should say there were signs, but no one looking at him would have interpreted any of them as signifying autogynephilia.   He was self-absorbed and distant, which made him a less than satisfactory partner.  He was critical of masculinity but never showed any sign he disliked being male, just as I was critical of femininity but like being a woman.  He had male friends.  We had what I, at least, thought was satisfying sex, not exactly plain vanilla but no kinks; he never gave me to understand he wasn't satisfied. 
  From what I read, the condition escalates over time, but it also waxes and wanes.  So if your husband is not currently dressing, it means nothing about whether he will again wish to dress, because indulging and then purging is a common pattern.  As for being "a giver and a receiver," one can both give and receive in a straight relationship with one's wife; one doesn't need to access a transsexual to do so.  So what he wants, I'd say, is something other than merely to give and receive.  
   

 

December 19, 2017 8:11 am  #23


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

OutofHisCloset wrote:

one can both give and receive in a straight relationship with one's wife; one doesn't need to access a transsexual to do so.  So what he wants, I'd say, is something other than merely to give and receive.  
   

It seems to me, from what my ex said that the “femininity” od a trans/crossdresser coupled with a penis is what is so erotic and alluring. Seriously Tyurk, what he is saying to you is cruel, that he wants to do these things. I heard them too and they are soul-destroying. Go and do them then and leave me alone was my answer.

 

December 19, 2017 10:05 pm  #24


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

OutofHisCloset wrote:

Tyurk,
  Out of the blue.  It wasn't introduced to me; he dropped it like a bomb.  After thirty-two years of marriage he announced one day that he was transgender.  When he made the announcement, he said nothing about anything of a sexual nature, but soon, over the next few weeks, as he used me to talk his feelings through (I should have shut that down sooner than I did), the sexual nature of his condition emerged, and he began telling me his sexual fantasies, which were all to do with "acting like the woman" and "being penetrated" and "wanting to be punished" (masochism often accompanies autogynephilia).
  There were no signs at all--he'd been hiding all his explorations from me for two years (while exploring the possibility of his being trans with a former student!).  Or maybe I should say there were signs, but no one looking at him would have interpreted any of them as signifying autogynephilia.   He was self-absorbed and distant, which made him a less than satisfactory partner.  He was critical of masculinity but never showed any sign he disliked being male, just as I was critical of femininity but like being a woman.  He had male friends.  We had what I, at least, thought was satisfying sex, not exactly plain vanilla but no kinks; he never gave me to understand he wasn't satisfied. 
  From what I read, the condition escalates over time, but it also waxes and wanes.  So if your husband is not currently dressing, it means nothing about whether he will again wish to dress, because indulging and then purging is a common pattern.  As for being "a giver and a receiver," one can both give and receive in a straight relationship with one's wife; one doesn't need to access a transsexual to do so.  So what he wants, I'd say, is something other than merely to give and receive.  
   

OOHC, 
God, what a nightmare to be told out od the blue like that. And hearing all of their fantasies is terrible. But I ask alot of questions about his fantasies now, i guess to try to make sense or to remind myself why I want to leave. So the urges wax and wane, i need to keep this is my mind when he acts like he does not want to do it for a lil while. Like recently, him claiming he doesnt like feeling addicted to porn or it makes him feel like a bad father cause he could be spending time with them. But this is a low period. It will be back, I have seen that to be true.

About the "giving and receiving" I just ment he would like to do both ways with 1. I asked. Isnt that nice. But he still claims he wants a life/sex with me more than sex witha tranny. 

I worry about how strong the urges may grow to be. Will he need to cheat with a tranny? Or start wearing my underwear again? Or will he just need to please himself and that will be enough? I wish I could trust his promises. It breaks my heart to want to leave him and break up our kids home.  But the more I allow myself to process the more I see we cant be together. He cant change. I cant change. It just really sucks, i love him, he is my best friend and we have had more happy times than bad by far, and I do feel he loves me and does alot for me and our kids day to day.  
 

     Thread Starter
 

December 19, 2017 10:16 pm  #25


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Duped wrote:

OutofHisCloset wrote:

one can both give and receive in a straight relationship with one's wife; one doesn't need to access a transsexual to do so.  So what he wants, I'd say, is something other than merely to give and receive.  
   

It seems to me, from what my ex said that the “femininity” od a trans/crossdresser coupled with a penis is what is so erotic and alluring. Seriously Tyurk, what he is saying to you is cruel, that he wants to do these things. I heard them too and they are soul-destroying. Go and do them then and leave me alone was my answer.

Duped,

yes that is the same thing husband says. They are alluring and attracrive cause its a pretty woman but with a cock. I dont think so.
And yes, it is soul destroying and cruel to hear. I asked them though, he doesn't just tell me. I say if you had the chance would you? He says only if I was ok with it and involved too. 

 

     Thread Starter
 

December 20, 2017 6:09 am  #26


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Tyurk,
   So he'd like to have sex with a transsexual ladyboy but only with your permission and participation?  I bet that feels like he's somehow considering you, doesn't it?  From where I sit, it looks like the typical shifting of responsibility onto you for what he wants, making you the gate-keeper, knowing that you will want to make him happy.  It's a move right from the passive-aggressive playbook, applying a low key pressure that doesn't announce itself as pressure but which nonetheless asks you to act, which is the mode of action for those too cowardly to just come out and live honestly the way they feel. I'm disgusted on your behalf. 
  It seems that you are where many of us have been: knowing at a deep level that the two of you have incompatible sexualities but not wanting it to be true.  I see you saying you want "to make sense of it or remind myself of why I want to leave," a state of being that I recognize, too, one in which you are pulled in two different directions. You know you want to leave; you know you want to stay.  When the "or" in that statement, which works as an "either-or," as in, "I want to understand and stay, or just get out and leave") becomes "and" maybe your position will have shifted: it's possible to want to understand AND to leave.  I don't know where you'll end up.   I suspect he isn't going to hand you a reason to leave--that would requires an ability to act he doesn't seem to have. He knows what he wants, but for whatever reason he doesn't think he can act on his desire to have it; maybe he too is weighing things: my family or my sexuality.  But I do know that if you're at a point where you're grateful that he wants sex with you "more than a tranny" you're trying very hard to find in him something to stay for.  Because I mean really...
   From what I've experienced and seen here and in other places, the best way to get out of the limbo you're in is if possible to get him out of the house and away from you. 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (December 20, 2017 6:17 am)

 

December 20, 2017 8:02 am  #27


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Tyurk, do you think that if having sex and a relationship with a tranny was just an every day, acceptable thing that he woild be looking for your validation? My guess is he would have gone for it long ago.

And once he’s done it (wit or without your agreement) what happens then. He’s not going to say, ok that’s that I don’t want it again, let’s go back to being us. It’s just unleashing a lion.

Can you accept that his sexuality is trained on ladyboys? I know I couldn’t.

Plus you are CLEARLY not happy with him doing it or being involved so in reality he should drop it and commit fully. I suspect however he will still harbour it.

Last edited by Duped (December 20, 2017 8:07 am)

 

December 20, 2017 12:22 pm  #28


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

It's kind of crazy how much some people must be thinking of sex for them to spend so much time thinking about their secret desires and wanting to indulge in them.  I mean,.... I have a healthy, normal sex drive.  And I enjoy a multitude of fun things.  But I rarely think about it all ahead of time.  When it's go time, it's spontaneous and intuitive - we go to wherever we're going together.  One of us doesn't have the kind of sex we want "planned out", and are asking the other to fill a role.  The fact that they know so much about what they like (that they don't have an opportunity to do with us) just.... boggles my mind.

I suppose every once in a while I might think ahead of time about doing something special, but it's more likely a setting - like candles, soft music, massage oil.  Start off with a massage.  That sort of thing.  I'm not creating an environment for the experience - not the actual experience.  Every once in a while my dh will say someting, "Well hello,.... what's your name?  Are you the one I sent for?" at the beginning of an encounter.  I either play along by giving him an alternate name, or I give him my own name - to signal him that I'm ME and I'm not playing anyone else right now.  If he pushes back, it's usually in jest - "I ordered the *full experience*", and then I'm like, "It's me - your WIFE.  *full experience* means you go homemade mashed potatoes with your dinner tonight."  And then he straightens out real fast.  I don't mind escaping reality every once in a while.  But really don't desire to be anyone else too often - I like being me - with him.

After my last unsatisfying marriage, I did have several requirements around intimacy that I wanted met before I committed to anything serious long-term.  I needed to find the person attractive.  I needed to feel that they felt the same.  I needed a level of passion that was fairly intense.  I needed to have an acceptable level (for me) of frequency.  And I needed him to be both adventurous but satisfied with mostly vanilla sex.  I didn't want to be stifled again like in my last relationship - where anything BUT vanilla was looked at as "crazy".  And I didn't want anyone that required kinks and/or fetishes as a necessity in order to be excited.  No WAY was I getting stuck on THAT end of the spectrum, either.  I'd had one pseudo mini relationship where the man I was dating wanted that, and it was too much.  And I didn't find it enjoyable.  I need balanced all the way along, every day.  Our GID partners seem to be too far one way or the other for balance with a straight partner.  And they are either unwilling or unable to fix it.  And that's game over, for me.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (December 20, 2017 4:06 pm)


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

December 23, 2017 12:35 pm  #29


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

OutofHisCloset wrote:

Tyurk,
   So he'd like to have sex with a transsexual ladyboy but only with your permission and participation?  I bet that feels like he's somehow considering you, doesn't it?  From where I sit, it looks like the typical shifting of responsibility onto you for what he wants, making you the gate-keeper, knowing that you will want to make him happy.  It's a move right from the passive-aggressive playbook, applying a low key pressure that doesn't announce itself as pressure but which nonetheless asks you to act, which is the mode of action for those too cowardly to just come out and live honestly the way they feel. I'm disgusted on your behalf. 
  It seems that you are where many of us have been: knowing at a deep level that the two of you have incompatible sexualities but not wanting it to be true.  I see you saying you want "to make sense of it or remind myself of why I want to leave," a state of being that I recognize, too, one in which you are pulled in two different directions. You know you want to leave; you know you want to stay.  When the "or" in that statement, which works as an "either-or," as in, "I want to understand and stay, or just get out and leave") becomes "and" maybe your position will have shifted: it's possible to want to understand AND to leave.  I don't know where you'll end up.   I suspect he isn't going to hand you a reason to leave--that would requires an ability to act he doesn't seem to have. He knows what he wants, but for whatever reason he doesn't think he can act on his desire to have it; maybe he too is weighing things: my family or my sexuality.  But I do know that if you're at a point where you're grateful that he wants sex with you "more than a tranny" you're trying very hard to find in him something to stay for.  Because I mean really...
   From what I've experienced and seen here and in other places, the best way to get out of the limbo you're in is if possible to get him out of the house and away from you. 

OOHC, 

I cant thank you enough for your insight. Your words have really helped me accept some hard truths. Especially, our incompatible sexualities. 

He is now telling me things like if I leave, he will always believe we could have made it and been happy. He is thanking me for helping him accept his sexuality amd that he is also addicted to porn. And he says he just wants me to be happy even if it isnt with him. He is acknowledging that I have tried hard for years. But he is also stating this is a NEW level of awareness for him of his sexuality and addiction to porn and he can now start to work on it as he understands it better. Which makes me feel like I should try again. I cant tell if this is a manipulation or the truth. I can tell anymore. 

But after reading what little info I can find on the psychological trauma this does to the straight spouse,  I can see why I dont trust my gut anymore. The fragmented ego is something I feel I need to understand better. I think it is what has happened to me. 

     Thread Starter
 

December 23, 2017 12:41 pm  #30


Re: Still in denial. Is he gay or bi?

Duped wrote:

Tyurk, do you think that if having sex and a relationship with a tranny was just an every day, acceptable thing that he woild be looking for your validation? My guess is he would have gone for it long ago.

And once he’s done it (wit or without your agreement) what happens then. He’s not going to say, ok that’s that I don’t want it again, let’s go back to being us. It’s just unleashing a lion.

Can you accept that his sexuality is trained on ladyboys? I know I couldn’t.

Plus you are CLEARLY not happy with him doing it or being involved so in reality he should drop it and commit fully. I suspect however he will still harbour it.

 Duped, 
 I appreciate your opinion. I see what you are saying and I agree. No, I cant handle that his sexuality is trained on ladyboys. And so far he has not been able to supress it fully when he tries. Only for a few months. Now he is trying again and joined a addiction group, stating he understands his sexuality and addiction to porn now and now he thinks he can fix it. 

     Thread Starter
 

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