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Wed Aug 23 11:12 am  #1


Advice needed

I'm in my 40's and have been with my wife for 18 years. A few months ago I was using her phone to browse the web as mine was dead. When I opened her browser, it was in the fan layout, displaying all of the open pages. There were 4-5 pages of porn open so I decided to check it out.  When I opened each of the pages they went to the landing page of lesbian videos. Meaning she went to the site, clicked the lesbian category and opened the videos that I was looking at.  I was turned on by it and rather than confront her I decided to be subtle. I asked her to watch a few vids with me but she refused.

A few weeks later, I checked again and found new videos opened. This time, I asked to speak with her. I started the conversation by asking if she ever watches porn and she said no. I asked if she ever watches it on her phone and she said no so I opened her phone and showed her what I found. She denied that she was watching it and claimed she had no idea how it got on her phone. I told her that it really turned me on and is the same thing I enjoy watching.  I asked if she would include me of if we could watch some together once in a while, knowing she has needs too.  I told her it was normal to watch them and that I don't mind but she refused to have any knowledge of the pages she was staring at. She said she never watches it and couldn't understand how I thought she had time to watch porn let alone masterbate.  I told told her I watch the same thing almost daily. I continued trying to get her to discuss it but she wasn't budging and I knew she was lying.  I told her I would feel better if she just told me she watched it even if she didn't.

Fast forward another few weeks and I looked again.   I noticed she closed the lesbian videos so I took a deeper dive into her history and found she had still been watching the porn, found a video chat site and an adult hookup site. This made me nervous so I decided to check out spokeo and set up fake accounts on a few hookup sites.

After confronting her on everything, she got extremely angry and started to cry. She said she couldn't believe what she was hearing; how could I think these things of her; when do I think she has the time for any of it; things will never be the same; she needs to get out of here; this is the one place she felt safe and now that's gone; etc. Then she started diverting, deflecting, shifting blame and making counter acquisitions. She denied all of it. The sites I found open and the sites in her history.  Once again swearing to god she was never on them.  She wanted to leave but ended up staying; I gave her 20 minutes to cool off and picked up the conversation.

She started with, nothing will ever be the same between us; how could you think these things about me; I've never been on a porn site in my life; I don't have the time for any of the things you're accusing me of; why do you suddenly want to work on our relationship; why now; why not all of the times you hurt me; I will never be able to look at you the same way and so on. It was as if she was saying the things to me that I would have said to her if she had an affair.

I explained that there is no way for those sites to be in her history if she didn't view them and she claimed to have no understanding of what history is despite deleting earlier history. She asked if I think she's on those sites and I said they don't open theirself. She responded, so you think I'm having an affair and I said you could be.  I told her this was a chance to come clean; tell me what she's really feeling and what has happened.  She was pissed and hurt in a way that I have rarely seen and she looked me in the eyes and screamed as loud as she could,  "I am, with women".  I asked when and she said "never because I haven't".  She wouldn't discuss anything else; when I questioned her about admitting it and asked when it happened; she again said never because I lied.

I caught her going to a lunchtime message with a women she worked with a few years back; she paid for both of them. She denied that until I showed her the bank statements.

Red Flags:
Watching lesbian porn, 15 pages that were new the three times I looked- admitted but said she was embarrassed.

Hookup site - in history said it must have been accidental

Porn video chat - in history said it must have been an accidental click

Told me I was disconnected (and I was, we both were.)

Told me she had affair with women.

I told her we either go to therapy or I'm out because of the lies. She told the therapist talking about sexuality is off limits

Hid the lunch massages - said she didn't want me to get mad about her spending our money.

Told her signs all point to affair - she said, "I could accuse you of the "same thing".

If I had to average it out: sex every 4-6weeks said she never masterbates then told me about once a month. Since all of this started, our sex life has actually been the best it's ever been. She's open to trying new things and we have sex almost daily. Said she didn't have sex with me before because she didn't like the way her body looked. She has been working out and is now XS.

She was extremely defensive when I brought everything up said "things will never be the same with us. This was my safe place and now that's gone; I need to get out of here".

She claims she lied about having an affair but because she lied about the porn for 3 weeks; I'm having a hard time believing her admission was a lie.

She has apps on her phone that immediately delete messages. It was work mandated and I saw the email but it still makes me uneasy given what's been said.

The only person she talks about is her gay friend at work.

She has social anxiety and prefers the company of men over women. She says women are too catty.

She claims the dating site and video chat site must have opened from accidentally clicking an ad while on the porn pages.

She's accusing me of having an affair with my boss but I've never cheated on her, don't flirt with women and come home right after work.

Doesn't like male strip clubs, but will go to a female stop club.

I've caught her staring at women twice recently. Once at a restaurant on our anniversary; she watched this gorgeous woman walk about 50 yards and continued as she walked past us. The second was at another restaurant where she turned around, away from the table, toward the front door as she watched two walk out together.

I feel completely broken inside. We've talked a lot since all of this. None of what's been said since really adds up. I've asked multiple times if it happen, if she thinks she's bi or gay but I always get the same answer I got when I asked her about the porn...no. She claims she told me she cheated on me to hurt me. Then she claimed my accusation was so crazy that she was being sarcastic. She claims she smoked and didn't know what she was talking about when she said it. I asked why she said she cheated on me with a woman and not a man if she lied. She said it's because I accused her of watching lesbian porn; she did finally admit to the porn two weeks after the last time I asked her.  Why would a heterosexual assume I'm referring to women and why lie about porn when I told her I watched the same thing and rub one daily to it? (Told her the 1st time I found it)

She said she wants to fulfill my fantasy of a threesome but wants it to be about me.  She suggested going somewhere like the bunny ranch to avoid locals. Then said she would like to have the third go down on her and vice versa.

At this point I would feel better knowing she did cheat or may be bi than to continue thinking she did...the thoughts are agonizing compared to whatever truth is out there.

Reasons why she may not have:
She is home all the time
Doesn't do girl trips
Doesn't go out of town
She seems to like sex with me and usually has 2-5 orgasms when we have sex. (This didn't happen when we rarely had sex)
Her electronics are out and open for me to view.

When I questioned her about a post I thought was hers she almost completely lost it.

I know you can't definitively tell me if she did or didn't cheat but I have so many questions.
What is the likelihood she cheated?
Could it have been physical or emotional or both?
Why say women?
Could she be bi/gay and afraid to say?
Why lie about it?
Is this the beginning stage of coming out?
What that her way of coming out?
Is it the beginning stage of discovery?
When did she do it?
With who?
When? During work hours?
How can I help her be comfortable discussing with me?
Would you tell your spice you cheated on them just to hurt them?
What would you do in my situation?

Last edited by Joescookie (Wed Aug 23 11:35 am)

 

Wed Aug 23 11:45 am  #2


Re: Advice needed

Hi Joe,

I'm so sorry. She's lying to you.  And you should find it insulting that she expects you to believe such bullshit.  She is lying, and has the nerve to act hurt that you don't believe her lies?  Yeahhhhh,..... no.

And you're right - if you caught her lying and she hasn't fessed up to it, then you can't really know what you can and cannot believe.  The massages she paid for is a perfect example.  She did it, and you had proof.  What did she say THEN?  That the bank screwed up?  If you need to use something as an example of her lying, use that - it's irrefutable.  It's just stupid that she'd do something that she didn't think you'd like (even if it was just paying for the massages), and then lies to hide it?  I mean, don't do it in the first place, if she's concerned about the ramifications.  Or do it because you believe you have the right, and then f'n OWN it.  You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

It never seems like they have the time to cheat.  I know of coworkers who've cheated with colleagues and their spouse just thinks they're at work.  These people would take looooong lunches at a hotel, and if their spouse tried to call, we were instructed to say that they were in a meeting (which is totally believable).  I knew of one woman who had a lover she only got to see a bit of, and she'd take an earlier train, get off a his stop (which was on the same line), sit in his car, mess around, and then get on the next train that she should have been on.  She had a monthly pass, so the extra cost would never have shown up anywhere.  One woman told me that she had supposedly joined the PTA and was gone all the time for school meetings.  What was her unsuspecting husband going to do, check to make sure she was at every meeting?  She made sure to be at a few events as a volunteer - like the book fair.  He'd bring the kids through and she'd look like she was working her shift for the PTA.  I knew of another person who got off every other Friday in the summertime as a department perk.  She didn't tell her husband.  Just got up and went into work every Friday as usual.  Only she was spending the entire day twice a month with her boyfriend.  I knew of a stay at home mom that used to have her man friend over when the kids were napping.  Where there's a will, there's a way, as the saying goes.

No one tells their spouse they're cheating "just to get back at them".  That's dangerous and not to the person's advantage to say such a thing.  And the fact that she screamed "Yes, with women!" is actually the truth.  It popped out, and she didn't want to deal with the fallout, so she'll just say it was a lie.  Lies, lies, lies.

I'm sorry you're going through this.  Stand your ground. What she's doing is called gaslighting and love bombing.  They're all distraction tactics.  You don't have to believe what she throws at you.

Kel
 


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

Wed Aug 23 12:15 pm  #3


Re: Advice needed

Hi Joe, 

Sorry you are going through this.  It's so hard to not know what is going on with your wife.. to wonder about her sexuality, if she's being honest with you or cheating on you. 

As I read your message a few things popped into my head. 

She is displaying many of the traits of people who are GID (Gay in Denial).  This means that they want to keep it a secret.  They certainly don't want others to know.. and many times they continue to lie to themselves.  The biggest thing is that they lash out in anger if questioned.     I too saw an increase in sex before the truth finally came out.  My ex was trying to lead me on..  They figure if they have more sex with you that you won't question their sexuality.  Or you would talk yourself out of it by thinking that your sex life is better.  

It seems like a reasonable person would understand why you were concerned about finding porn on their phone and would be willing to discuss that with you.  If it wasn't them, they wouldn't act with anger, but instead be open to discussion and together try to land on a conclusion.  

If she is gay she is certainly in denial.  Her admission of that would open up a big can of worms and likely cause big changes in life.  This usually leads to divorce and she doesn't want that.  She's just not ready to come out..  it usually takes falling in love with a new person to get them to come out and leave you.  

I hope for your sake that you are wrong about all of this, but my gut says you are not.  

I would encourage you to keep discussions open with her.  Be wary of any secrets she tries to keep from you.  

Anyway.. welcome to our group.  So sorry you are struggling with this strife in your world. 
 


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 

Thu Aug 24 12:50 am  #4


Re: Advice needed

Hi Joe,

okay so I expect writing that post has put it out in front of you.  It takes a lot to process this doesn't it.  Just the simple fact that the person you trust the most is faking you hurts unbearably.  Beneath that is the slow burn, the intense bit, the sexual mismatch you are both feeling the effects of.  You have been carrying the brunt of it but look who it is who starts screaming at you when the truth starts to emerge as inevitably it eventually will.

Don't let her do that again.  Has she apologised?  Don't let her use you as a scratching post.  

After a while i realised I had to accept I was the only responsible adult in the house and it was up to me to make the calls that needed to be made.

Wishing you all the best, Lily (the old one not the new one here now)
 

 

Fri Aug 25 9:45 am  #5


Re: Advice needed

Hi, Thanks for sharing your story.

My story is "different", still SO many similarities..,!

I felt som familiar with your situation, and think you describe this well..

I know the feeling so well in many of your situations, and things seems so "obvious", still they are often details impossible to discuss with anyone, but relevant and seemingly important to you because you know her ways so well..

I could almost write much of your story myself; your questions, her responses (denial, even when you offer understanding and admit your own desires); she watched porn, had always said no, turned out she liked lesbian porn well, had always denied this, even when I showed her this earlier, saying its fine.. (I always felt though, that she seemed more into the women than the guys..) activities with other women with questionable motivations, rarely out, few female friends (other than women she seems to admire/my guess desire), "when would I have the time" (and highly troubled/offended when I joke about how easily people meet for a quickie), sex skyrocketed when we started to talk about this.. "Anything" was possible..

She once told me named of women she found beautiful (colleagues etc).
Later she changed this, and said she had never said such..

I am in the middle of it too.
People here are great support.

Feel free to PM me if you like.

 

Fri Aug 25 10:43 am  #6


Re: Advice needed

Hi Kel: thank you for the reply. It's helps to hear others perspective because when you love someone the way I love my wife it's hard to see through there bullshit. Honestly, I think I'm still in denial a little. She's big on distraction tactics and uses them in me regularly. It's helped to become aware of it and call her out when it happens. But she's lied to me so much over the years that my trust in her is gone.

Given what you know about people that cheated, what's the best way to catch them? Were these people madly in love with the other, making attempts to see each other regularly or did they meet up every so often? I'm asking because I can't help but wonder how many times this has happened, when and with how many people. Something that keeps sticking out is the word "women". It had a plural meaning in the way it was said...is there more than one? I need to catch her because it's the only way I'm going to get her to face the facts and admit the truth.

Phoenix, thanks for your reply! Can you tell me more about GID or point me toward a good resource. Your points about increased sexual activity being a cover hit home. I can't understand why she suddenly flipped the switch, though I'm happy she did. We were in bed recently and she asked to watch some BJ porns to "learn how to do it right"; I agreed to put them on and as soon as it came on she stopped watching and wouldn't watch. So I switched it to lesbian and got the same thing. I asked what was wrong and she said the BJ porn was gross and she's never going to watch lesbian porn again because she's not going to have me accuse her of being a lesbian. I asked when she watched it alone; what was it that turned her on? I asked if she was turned on by it watching it alone what's changed? No response was given, then she jumped on top of me.

I forgot to mention a few things in my 1st post. Around the time that she admitted to the affair; I found tons of pics on her phone that were love memes and a few that discussed facing a difficult decision with love and having no regrets. Another talked about moving forward with love or going back to how things were. She claimed they reminded her of something unrelated to us but again; her explanation doesn't add up and none were ever sent to me.

I also wrote her a long letter after all of this happened. In part of it, I told her I believed in my mind, heart and soul that she had an emotional or physical affair and that she was afraid of the consequences of being honest with me about what happened and that I didn't think she meant for it to happen but truest believe it did.  When I got home that night, she screamed it never happened, then got in her car and left. She never wrote back, never explained her feelings and never addressed it again. I've asked her if she finds women attractive, if she's thought of them sexually or emotionally and who she talked to at work about us and got nothing but denial from her.

Steen: Thank you for sharing. It's unbelievable how they can lie and lie and lie. It's hard to believe I've met two people in two days who had things admitted and retracted. Kel is right; why can't they just own it? It's almost like she enjoys seeing me in agony!

     Thread Starter
 

Fri Aug 25 12:06 pm  #7


Re: Advice needed

Joe, 

What are you going to do when you catch her?   Have you thought that through yet?

The concept of GID or Gay In Denial is simply that a person is gay and not willing to admit it.  They may not want to be judged by others.  They don't want to lose the security of the family and home they live in. They aren't ready to go through a divorce process.  They often feel people will be angry at them or hate them.  They may struggle with religious beliefs that state that homosexuality is sin.  It might be all of the above.  
They often continue to lie to themselves.  They don't want to be gay.  They think they can overcome the internal sexual attractions.  Being in denial is not just denying it to the outside world.. it is often their own internal lie. 

Regardless of the cause, a GID person will go to extreme lengths to hide their identity.  They try to take on the qualities of a straight person.. even down to the negative ones.  A lot of GID men will make fun of homosexuals in order to appear straight (because a gay person wouldn't hate gay people right?).  A lot of GID spouses will do their best to appear straight in sexual relations.  It's easier for a woman for reasons I'm sure you can understand.  
One interesting thing I found in my own relationship is that when my ex would go out with a lesbian that I suspected she was interested in, she would be rather horny when she got home.  Those were some of the very few times in my entire 16 years of marriage that she was actually interested in sex.  Toward the end of the marriage, when she was already in love with someone else and I not only suspected it, but was actually asking about it, she increased her willingness to have sex with me.  She must have felt that by satisfying my requests it would convince me that she was still in love with me.  

Here's something you need to understand.  
You are way behind the curve on this understanding of her sexuality.  She has been dealing with it since she was a teen and she has become a pro at lying.  Imagine when the core of your being is something you want to keep secret.  You would get very good at it.  She is 10 steps ahead of you.  But you are starting to build a case against her and now you are seeing some of the armor break.  That is what is causing her angry outbursts and her admission followed by taking it back.  She's right on the verge.. she doesn't know how much longer she can hide it.  But she's not ready to disclose it yet because she isn't ready to deal with the consequences. 

I would advise you to prepare for what happens when you do find out.  It will help take some of the shock away because you will already have a plan.  What I mean by prepare is this..  get education on divorce law in your state in case that becomes the choice.  If you don't want divorce, start looking into Mixed Open Marriages because she will surely ask for that.  Start learning and processing so that you have a better understanding of how to move forward if/when you do finally get your proof. 

Keep a journal

Do you have kids?


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 

Fri Aug 25 12:29 pm  #8


Re: Advice needed

Hi Phoenix,

I can't thank you enough for your response. You're right, I was unprepared when she admitted it and I'm just as unprepared now.  What you're saying makes perfect sense with regard to preparation and where she's at in this process; so I will start researching. We do have kids.

Might I ask if it's not to painful, how most of you reacted to your spouse coming out in the moment? Were you supportive, angry, denial? What did you say? What did they say? What did you ask?  Did you leave right away? Did you stay and try to work on things? How did that work out? Have any of you opened your marriage? If so, what difficulties or struggles did you face? If they retracted their admission; what did you say?

     Thread Starter
 

Fri Aug 25 12:52 pm  #9


Re: Advice needed

That's why we are here Joe..  We are here for you!

I had been struggling with her for months because I felt like she was in love with a woman she worked with.  But at the same time I was also not willing to allow myself to believe it could be true.  "Your mind believes what your heart wants".  I was in total denial that it could be true.  This war within myself had me in a state of depression and fear.  When she admitted that she was lesbian, the first feeling that washed over me was relief.  It meant that I was right.. I wasn't crazy.  That feeling passed within a few minutes though.. because it was quickly replaced by shock and fear.  I had become very dependent her love.  Like a prisoner fed little crumbs.. I yearned for those crumbs.  So her admission meant that it might be the end of my marriage, the destruction of my life as I knew it.  It was the destruction of my future.  I didn't sleep for a couple of days, was in literal physical shock, and was just a disaster emotionally.  I had visions of paying most of my income to alimony and child support and struggling to survive in a crappy apartment.. and not getting to see my kids except ever other weekend.  That was what I envisioned.  I was just scared and in shock. 

I tried to convince her to stay with me.  I tried to convince her not to walk down that path of sin (I'm a very religious person.. and she was when I met her, but changed a lot in that last couple years).  I tried to save the marriage.  

I was not supportive.  I told her she was being selfish and horrible and destroying our lives and our family and our kids.  I wasn't really angry until I found out for sure that she was cheating on me... then I got angry..  but by that time I had made a promise to her and to myself and to God that I wasn't going to treat her badly through the divorce.  

We talked about an open marriage for about 2 minutes.. and it was obviously not something I was going to be able to live with.  The idea that the person who promised to love me alone.. the person bonded to me through marriage.. being out having sex with someone else was too much for me to bear.  One night when I overheard her planning a sexual liason with her lover on my birthday.. I completely melted down and had a horrible panic attack.  

She knew that I couldn't legally kick her out of the house.. and I was still trying to be kind and save her respect and keep things civil for the kids.  I knew that if I left the house it would be seen as abandonment, so I couldn't.  I also wouldn't do anything to lose even a minute of time with my sons. 

My ex didn't retract her admission, but she did blatantly lie to my face for the entirety of the divorce proceedings.  Of course she was a professional liar so it was easy for her.  But it hurt me a lot.  

One of the things that hurt the most was "deflection".  My therapist warned me about it ahead of time and it came true.  She had become such a liar and a monster by having this affair that she couldn't live with the guilt, so she had to come up with excuses to deflect that guilt and come up with reasons to not like me.  So she accused me of all nature of things to make the divorce somehow my fault.  That hurt..   

I have a very long thread that I kept as a journal of my process in the support forum.  You are welcome to read it if you want. 


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 

Fri Aug 25 1:04 pm  #10


Re: Advice needed

Joe,

My experience with my ex finally admitting to being gay came about a good year after I asked for a divorce.  There were several instances of me "catching him" over the years though, and he always had an excuse.  For instance, Twice he went out with my much younger sister and her friends while I was home watching our then very young baby.  Both times they went to gay clubs as my sister's roommate was gay and that's where he wanted to go.  My sister reported to me on one occasion that my husband had gotten very drunk as the evening wore on, until he was dirty dancing with all the men, and he even tried to make out with my sister's roommate.  He was very young then - maybe 25 or so.  She said she wasn't sure if he was gay, or if he was trying to be hip and go along with the crowd, but regardless, it had been inappropriate and awkward for her.  My then husband told me that he remembered NO such actions.  I asked him if I wasn't to believe my sister, and he just said that he doesn't know why she'd say such a thing.  He doesn't remember anything after a certain point in the evening.  He had done things before where he'd gotten belligerent to me while getting drunk, and the next day he'd claim to know nothing of those actions.  Oddly though, he seemed to remember other things that happened at the same time.  For instance, one time he was so out of line that I slapped him.  The next day he woke up, came to me and said, "Did you BEAT me last night???"  I told him what he'd done and what I'd done.  "Oh.  I don't remember any of that."  At the time, I remember thinking, "If you wanted to claim ignorance, why didn't you just forget ALL of it?  The other part of me said that he wouldn't have brought it up knowing the rest of the story if he'd remembered all of it and saw how bad it made him look.  So I never knew what happened.  But it was all brushed under the rug, of course.  He had "no idea why your sister would have interpreted anything I did in that way.  Even if I DID do those things, they'd have HAD to be a joke!"

Another time I went online and checked his email account while he was out of work because we didn't have computer access at home.  I'd done this many times for him - he would tell me to.  Once I checked in and there was an email from Yahoo Dating, saying that he had matches based on his preferences.  I opened it.  They were all local men!  I called my sister over - whose house I was at - and said, "WHAT the fuck am I looking at???"  And she was like, "Oh SHIT.  I TOLD you he was gay!"  We'd been married for 7 years at that point.  Not long before that, our oldest son had been molested.  My husband had been horrifically sexually abused at around the same age, which I'd long known.  When I confronted my ex about the dating matches, he told me that he'd been having dreams about his past.  Except now instead of being scared in the dreams, he was excited.  He said it made him worry that he was gay.  So he thought if he looked at some men, he might be able to figure it out.  It didn't even make sense to me - if you want to LOOK at men to see if you would get a physical response, then why not try looking at gay porn? (Not that I'd have liked that any better).  Instead, this man - whom I was begging for sex - wasn't giving any to me, but was actively searching for a partner???  It was serious enough that at the time, he blurted out that he wasn't in love with me any more - that he loved and respected me, but as a friend, and as the mother of his children.  I told him we'd get a divorce then.  He panicked - he didn't want to not have daily contact with the kids.  So I told him that we either had to go to serious counseling, or call it quits.  He actively sought out counseling, and for a while, we were better.  He literally told me that he would never cheat on me with another WOMAN - but he didn't think of being with another man as cheating.  HUH???  In the end, the entire thing was addressed the same as if I'd found him trying to match up with women - as a stupid indescretion.

In the end, it was my brother-in-law who told me that my ex was gay.  It was August - a year and a half after I'd asked for a divorce - when my BIL told me that my ex had told him in January that he knew he was gay.  Told BIL that he'd never cheated (which I then believed, but have come to think is a lie), but he knew he was gay because he thought about men, but never women.  So here we were - already getting a divorce - and when I came home and very gently told my soon-to-be ex that I knew he was gay, he denied it.  I told him how I knew, and he said that he never told BIL that he was gay; he must have misunderstood.  What he SAID was that I'd asked him if he was gay.  I'm like, "Dude. I KNOW.  Just freaking own this already.  It's not going to make any difference at this point.  We're already done.  But for God's sake, have enough respect for me to tell me the actual truth for ONCE."  And he still couldn't.  He started crying, saying that he could NEVER tell me that he was gay, because then I'd be angry that he ruined my life, and wasted 16 years of my life.  I told him that he hadn't ruined my life - he was giving himself way too much credit - I'd be FINE.  And that I have 3 beautiful children out of the marriage - I could never regret it.  Still,..... he denied.  "But I can't be gay - if your family found out, they'd never let me see the kids again!"  I said that it wasn't up to my family, and that he's their FATHER - I would never deny him the right to see the kids unless he was hurting them.  And I didn't see him ever doing that.  So THEN he said, "Yeah, I'm gay.", and broke down into a heap on the floor.

The reality is that they're scared to admit that they're gay.  Maybe for one or two reasons, or maybe for dozens.  Maybe they think that gay people are sinning and will be damned to hell.  Maybe they think that they're lose the respect of the people who love them.  Maybe they think they'll be shunned.  Maybe they've always thought of gay people in a certain way, and they're not that way (like flamboyant, or butch), and they somehow feel that they don't fit the gay profile.  Or that if they come out, they'll turn into the profile they hate.  Maybe they want someone who helps with the bills and the house and the kids, and don't want to give that up.  Maybe they see themselves as liking the same sex for sex, but not emotionally.  Whatever it is, there is something if not several somethings that they're scared of.  And so they deny, they hide, they convince themselves that they're not really gay, even if they are participating in gay acts.  Maybe they think it's like someone who only smokes at parties - they don't consider themselves truly a "smoker".  It's just..... recreational.  And they're GOING to STOP!  Whatever the reason, the truth is that they can't handle the reality of the situation (even if the worst case scenario is only that bad in their imagination).  So they refuse to tackle the problem.  Throw YOU under the bus, instead.  Make YOU suffer - you're strong - you can handle it.  That's what made me angry in the end - not that he was gay, but that he'd thrown me under the bus and then lied about the fact that he'd even done so.  He let ME suffer because he was afraid to.  He considered his feelings more important than mine.  And THAT chapped my ass.

From all the stories I've seen here, it seems that in cases where the gay spouse admits to same sex attraction, the st8 partner starts out as supportive.  After all, they love their spouse, and want them happy - that's all they've ever wanted.  And oftentimes, the gay spouse is MORE than happy to play the victim here.  If you aren't supportive, or are in any way accusatory or don't give them permission to do what they want, then it's YOU who's selfish.  It's YOU who is unsupportive.  It's you who just.doesn't.understand how tortured they've been over this all along.  Or they turn the entire thing around and blame YOU for driving them away - you're too difficult, you're too oppressive, you're not clean enough, you nag too much - whatever it is.  YOU drove them to cheat, because you're horrible.  They never told you any of these things, but they'll use them as justification for their own behavior.

In the end, my opinion is almost ALWAYS to just get out.  By the time you're here, things have already progressed past the point where you can in good faith support them and trust them any longer.  They've been keeping secrets for so long that you can't trust anything they say any longer.  I never advocate doing an open relationship in a marriage - especially when it didn't start out that way.  It's counter-productive and unhealthy in several ways.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (Fri Aug 25 1:07 pm)


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

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