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Wed May 10 9:30 am  #21

Re: Pillar of the community

"Your daughter is about to be married.  How would she feel if her husband to be goes into a marriage and then cheats on her without regard to her feelings.  Gay or not".

^  lynncat - that's such a good point.  Angry, the high emotions of getting ready for a wedding might work in your favor here.  When you sit down with your daughter, maybe if you ask her that exact question it would bring it full circle for her and wake her up a bit.  How would she feel if 30 years from now she found out her husband were cheating on her the entire time with men even while she was pregnant?? PREGNANT!  Ask her to step back a minute and think how SHE would feel - not about you but how it would make her feel as a wife and mother.  And ask her if 30 years later she would feel the need to keep a sham marriage together for the sake of her grown children.



Wed May 10 6:07 pm  #22

Re: Pillar of the community

Hello all and thank you so much for all of your input.
 I think we all must be on different time zones.IT is so great to wake up and check this site and gain all of the support. Wisely given and from ppl who really understand this horror called TGT! 
I did Facetime my wonderful former marriage counselor today.The person who has stood by me throughout this nightmare and knows more about the situation than anyone, because he met with ex-gay husband privately at one point [before the reveal]. He may even know more than I do about my own marriage, as he has info from GIDXH! 
He carefully listened as I attempted to relay all of the  upsetting events events leading up to this SOS call. The manipulation of me [and my kids, the future in laws of my child],  the hurt, the flat out evil that this narcisstic GIDXH has dealt. 
The marriage counselors advice was surprising.
The counselor is very experienced and wise and the only person in the past few years that effectively read and figured out effective strategies to deal with GIDXH in the past.   He said that my best bet to restore a good relationship with my kids was to never bring up gave husbands name again. Not out him. Focus only on my individual child and restoring a relationship with child. Counselor saw GIDXH narcissism traits, his intelligence, his ability to manipulate almost anyone. He's polluted all of these people against me already and when I react, he can then say "SEE!  I TOLD YOU! SHE IS NUTS! 
He believes that eventually my kids will figure out who he is. 
Not easy. Not satisfying , but probably my only shot at a relationship with my kids in the future. Each calm interaction will show them who I am. Ive been calm until this past weekend. I need to get back to that place. 
This is similar advice to what attorney told me toward the end of the divorce. Just get it over with and get away from him. Run like your hair is on fire. Don't confront, don't interact. Don't give him  any fuel. Reacting and fighting a narcissist is like squirting gas on a fire. 
I just want to get a megaphone and ride up and down the street yelling ' ____the fabulous 'X' is a closeted homosexual-he is a fraud and that is why I divorced him!' EVIL EVIL MAN! 
What do you all think of the ignore and re-establish a relationship with your kids? 

     Thread Starter

Wed May 10 8:38 pm  #23

Re: Pillar of the community

I'm in the central time zone.  Texas. 

Oh boy.  I don't know.  This is why I asked if there was proof.  If you tell them the reason you divorced and it's just your word against his then he could easily tell them you're crazy and things will get worse.  In the end, it's totally your decision.  Me personally, if someone were spreading lies about me when he's the liar, I wouldn't be able to keep it to myself.  But if you trust the opinion of this therapist then go with that.  Only you will know the final answer - that was always the hardest part for me. 


Last edited by Still Wondering (Wed May 10 8:39 pm)


Wed May 10 8:52 pm  #24

Re: Pillar of the community

I do have proof-he admitted it in front of the therapist!
I accused him in therapy of having had an affair with a coworker and threatened to call her and he then admitted it was actually his anonymous sexcapades for entire marriage with men  that had been the source of the numersous STD he had given me. As far as I knew, I had been in a monogamous relationship for decades. TOTAL shock. I was sure he was making it up in order to wriggle out of the heterosexual affair he was in, but eventually I realized that he was actually telling the truth. At least a small portion of the truth, because as time went on it got worse and worse and worse as things were revealed. 
I think that I may be in hell. 
There is just nothing like discovering that your husband is gay. And then finding out that they are so narcissistic they cant even do the right thing. Why not tell his children, send me away taken care of financially and let me regain some semblance of peace, since he was the one who took so much from me. What a jackass! 

     Thread Starter

Wed May 10 9:08 pm  #25

Re: Pillar of the community

If your roles were reversed; that is if you were the adult child and it was your father not being truthful, would you want your mother to tell you?  I do not equate telling your children with "outing".  This is not simply about a neighbor or acquaintance, this is their father. They have lived under false pretenses their whole lives, and they deserve to know.  How and when that happens is up for discussion/debate, but I do not think not telling them is the answer.  Either way all any of us in this situation can do is to be our best selves and try to hope that our children see us for that, and like your counselor said, eventually see it all for what it is.  I do not know how they can do that though, if they are not told.  They could come to think that you were complicit since you have known and they are adults, i.e. there is no reason they should not know, now that they are grown.

My own kids said things over the years that implied that on some level they knew things were not right, but I did not pick up on those comments when they were made.  With hindsight, I could see how just like me, they have always had a "what's wrong with this picture" sense of things. It's just that no one has ever talked about it.  It is highly likely that your children would not actually be all that surprised and might well have had their own doubts over the years too.  No one will ever know, if it is never brought up.

Just my two cents.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" - Sir Walter Scott

Wed May 10 9:46 pm  #26

Re: Pillar of the community

I kind of agree with your the sense that your ex as a narcissist gets  "narcissistic supply" by any reaction you give him.   Your anger  is supply for him..      It a crazy life we lead  but other people may not want to know what we went through or why we divorced...or believe us.   I get it... I've been at  school events with my ex where she interacts with the other parents as if she is a normal good person..  If only these people knew... but  they may not care or believe me...    so the best I can do is be myself and act as normal and calm as ever ever when she is around.      This is really part of the no contact mentality we need with these narcs.   And with your kids also... i would just be myself and never bring him up..    If they exclude you from something I would call them out on it..  But even a dinner for your daughter with him there is a form of contact... I would weigh the benefits and decide if its worth the contact...usually for the kids it is ..    If these adult kids  start talking about the dad and what they did or where they went I would cover my ears  and say "lalalala"  ..tell them you dont want to know..   because its a indirect form of contact.     Give your ex  and kids no reaction about him..    Hard yes...  fair  no..   but it is part of no contact which helps us heal so well.

A sincere warm hug.

"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7

Thu May 11 2:15 am  #27

Re: Pillar of the community

I seem to be ahead of most of you (but I feel like I'm always late to the table as a lot has happened when I'm asleep), I'm in Europe!

Angry, I can see why your therapist is saying what he is BUT for me personally I don't know how you can't tell them. They are adults and if he's bad mouthing you, saying things like SEE I told you she's crazy etc why shouldn't you tell your truth?! That's just my personal opinion. I'm in the situation where my STBX has completely shoved me under the bus to gain support for himself, saying sure she was always judgemental (I was sooo judgemental but he only had opinions on things!!!), I think I'm perfect, I never knew how easy I had it, I never contributed, it goes on and on. There's NO WAY I could take your therapist's advice but then again he's experienced your narc EX's attitude, we're here only empathising with you from our own experiences, we don't know him at all.

Best bet for you imo is go with your gut, believe what you feel is right deep down, if you feel your therapist is right embrace it fully and be your best self in front of your kids and all that comes with them (future MIL etc) and take something to get through the wedding (tongue in cheek on that one ;-) !!) BUT if you feel you're better off with them knowing and ultimately they're better off knowing then tell your therapist you respect his opinion but feel they HAVE to know and ask if he'd still be willing to see it through, as in tell them in front of him.

Have you ever had a conversation with either child trying to gauge if they have any thoughts on what was the cause for the divorce or what they think may have happened?

Sometimes we are just the collateral damage in someone else's war against themselves

Thu May 11 6:56 am  #28

Re: Pillar of the community

Tough call here.  
Reasons to go ahead and tell them the truth: 
Because it's the truth and living a lie is exactly how you got to where you are now in the first place.
Because he's running you down, which is putting you in positions in which you're on the defensive, and he's manipulating you into those positions--he's directing your behavior without seeming to.  No wonder you cower in the restroom at public events; he's herded you there.  
Because you have the evidence of an independent verification (the counselor who will not countenance a lie) and a sealed statement (there must be ways to refer to it or to what's in it without running afoul of the law) you have a better case than "he said-she said."  
Because any authentic and honest relationship with your children depends on both authenticity and honesty.

Reasons to continue to conceal the truth:
Because your counselor, who has expertise in this area, thinks it's a bad idea. If you decide to go ahead, I would consult with the counselor on how to do it and how to prepare for the inevitable retaliation from your ex.
Because telling your children will force them to go through a similar destructive process to the one we have all gone through, from questioning our past and reality to questioning our sexuality.
Because people who hear things they don't want to hear, whether true or not, may "shoot the messenger." And while it is true your relationship with your children once they hear the truth will be more authentic, it may not change.  
 Because you may have concrete reasons--financial, etc--in which he has a hold on or can exert pressure on you.


Thu May 11 10:03 am  #29

Re: Pillar of the community

Fool Me - Oh my gosh, I heard all the same stuff.  I was so "judgmental" "hypercritical" "wouldn't work (since when?!), always had to be right, etc.  These are the same things he told everyone including our children.  It is amazing how when someone hammers away with those kinds of comments, a whole lot of it eventually sticks and people really think of you that way.  It is so helpful for me to come here and see how this is such a pattern with so many of these guys.  Otherwise, I might have started believing all of that stuff myself - in fact I actually was starting to believe it, and still do to some extent.  You start to think that if everyone is saying all this stuff about you, some of it must be true.  Again, only coming to this forum and seeing how it is so typical of these gay spouses, am I able to step back and see how it is all just BS and I'm not that terrible person he has told our children that I am.  Thank you for sharing your experience, because it really helps mine.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" - Sir Walter Scott

Thu May 11 12:36 pm  #30

Re: Pillar of the community

Hi angry

oh my goodness you must be hurting a lot and it is hard to see a way forward.  The level of threat your ex represents is a worry all round.   

I think listen to your gut, make a list of the questions you have and talk to the therapist some more.

wishing you all the best, xox.



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