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Mon May 8 9:53 am  #11


Re: Pillar of the community

Like Foolme, I too think that it might take having children of their own before some of our adult children actually begin to realize the true nature of these situations.  So far neither of mine have been all that keen on having children, and I have wondered sometimes if it isn't ultimately related to the gay thing and the fact that on some level they realize it would change how they see the parental relationship, family life, marriage, etc.  Time will tell.


"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" - Sir Walter Scott
 

Mon May 8 11:45 am  #12


Re: Pillar of the community

Lake Breeze wrote:

your daughter's soon to be mother-in-law is being rude and out of line.

^ THIS.  WHY would anyone feel free to tell their future daughter-in-law that her own mother needs to get a grip, and get counseling???  It's just rude.  And it presumes that she knows you and your situation well.  She does not.  And she's virtually ensuring that she won't.

So many of these GID (Gay In Denial) spouses are so good at fooling everyone around them.  Part of their cover is deflecting any of their transgressions onto others.  They are politicians at heart.

Your children deserve to know the truth.  I wanted my kids (who are now young adults but were young when I found out) to know that they were living authentic lives - not based on lies for their "own good".  Bullshit.  These GID spouses are only looking out for ONE person - themselves.  Getting close to the children is very often so they have everyone on their side.  If the kids learned the truth and were angry at their father, you wouldn't see him begging their forgiveness.  He will attempt to make it someone else's fault (yours).  If he got literally caught with his pants down, he'd say you drove him to it.  Or that someone abused him as a child.  Or that he was caught in a web of porn that twisted his brain.  It's NEVER their fault.  If your kids couldn't be convinced of this, you'd see him shove them to his outer peripheral.

As one of my best girlfriends used to say to me, "STOP eating the burnt toast - someone else can take a turn".

Kel
 


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

Mon May 8 9:02 pm  #13


Re: Pillar of the community

Thanks to all of you that have responded.

Another child graduated this weekend and its business as usual. Gay ex-husband is charming them all and I'm pushed  to the back of the bus. 

To answer some of the comments above-

To Lake Breeze-I don't really know what the truth will do to my relationship with my young adult children. As you say, they still may stay aloof. The wedding is six months away, so it wouldn't be like springing it on them and adding to the stress of the ramp up to the wedding. I do agree that future mother in law  was WAAAAAY out of line lecturing me on my 'behavior' and telling me I needed counseling so that my behavior would not effect the celebration. 
I did get into a heck of an argument  with my oldest this weekend over all of this.The gay stlil wasn't placed on the table. This child tells me that she cannot understand my anger, cant be expected to pick sides [I never asked her to]  and some other comments from her were that no mater what happened, she'll ALWAYS have a strong relationship with her Dad and nothing I say will ever have an effect on that-why can't you [me] just move on??? And that I need to leave the future on laws out of it. Of course, the future in-laws, children and their significant others are wined, dined, hosted at his [formerly my  precious] house, taken on fabulous vacations and given all the money there need for education, cars, entertainment. I haven't mentioned his horrendous treatment of me in the divorce, leaving me with far less than half of the assets we both accumulated over the years. You'd think that at least gay ex would feel some compassion and leave you in a place of financial comfort after what they've put us through, but no. Torture me that way too! 
This argument with my eldest yesterday ended with my saying that I intend to add the truth to the equation and that I believe that its up to them to decide how to handle things after truth is added to the equation. No response to that. She hasn't talked to me since.Today at the graduation she, her SO and gay ex arrived, sat down at the front of the auditorium and ignored me completely for the 6 hours this commencement lasted. The whole group including the graduate are now out having a fabulous dinner together. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE? 
 

     Thread Starter
 

Tue May 9 1:49 am  #14


Re: Pillar of the community

Hi Angry, how long ago did you divorce? How many children do you have? What do they think was the reason for the divorce? Did the children reside with you through school?

I think with six months to go to the wedding now's the time to tell the truth. I'd suggest trying to tell the children as a group so each knows what you said for sure and can't debate over she said this to me but she said that to the other, having hard evidence if necessary. As you know the personalities involved perhaps try to preempt how each will respond to you and be prepared!! If you can't tell them as a group try and tell them as close together in time as possible. You could suggest that you have a scheduled meeting every week to talk things through as they come to terms with it and answer different questions as they arise for them? Meeting up individually going forward might work better for you as with different personalities you may find one could be more dominant and take over group discussions whereas the quieter one might have more empathy for you and be willing to see it from your side. Only you know your children to the extent that you'll know what's best for them and you, I'm just making possible suggestions from knowing the personalities I've to deal with in my situation!

On the future mother in law for your daughter, good luck to your daughter having to deal with that type of a personality for years to come!!! If she feels entitled to interfere in YOUR life how entitled will she feel interfering in your daughter's life?????!!!!!!!!

 


Sometimes we are just the collateral damage in someone else's war against themselves
 

Tue May 9 4:08 pm  #15


Re: Pillar of the community

Hello,
Without revealing too much identifiable information, answers are:
 Divorced now about a year after a contentious divorce. Even the divorce attorneys and judge commented on how difficult gay ex-husband was to deal with. When you are a pillar of the community and see yourself as a fine upstanding citizen, you feel threatened with any criticism. He was so irritated that he had to follow the legal rules and was above it all. He felt that he was entitled to do anything his heart desired. And just because he'd had secret anonymous liasons with countless nameless men since he was a teen didn't mean he was GAY!  He had these encounters because he' just wanted to have someone to touch'. I didn't know about his sexcapades and BEGGED HIM for years for sex with no success.He didnt want to touch a woman, only men, but he is not GAY! haha
The children were never given a reason [by me] for the divorce. Ex told them that I left him for no apparent reason and that he was shocked.
The divorce occured just after the last child left for college.
The future mother- in- law is a real prize isn't she? Of course she thinks her child's soon to be  father-in-law is a pillar of the community !  
This whole thing is so perverse. I'm thinking of getting two therapists, one for each of my kids and telling my kids in front of both therapists who will be able to support them and deflect the sh##storm that will undoubtedly be unleashed on me because these kids are not going to want to believe the truth. 
 

     Thread Starter
 

Tue May 9 7:59 pm  #16


Re: Pillar of the community

Hi Angry,

I definitely think that in a divorce with kids situation that the kids (especially adults) need the truth.  However, I worry about this situation you're in because a year has already gone by and they have already formed opinions without your side of the story.  Any attempt at coming forward at this point will most likely look like you're trying to make something up.  That's not good, you're behind the 8 ball here. 

Is there anyone here who has suggestions for Angry who has been in the same situation?  Is there a way to approach her kids so that they 1) listen to her fully and 2) don't assume it's lies towards their pillar of the community father?  It's a tough place to be.  I think maybe a good way to start out would be:  For xxx years your father put my health in danger and I didn't find out until 2016 (or whatever year it was). I would think that if you bust out with the "he's gay thing" in the first sentence that you might lose them just in shock value.  idk, any comments/opinions from anyone about that?

Here are some more questions....what proof do you have of his gay escapades?  Is there a way (if they don't believe you) to be like, BAM, here you go, here's your proof?  It may come to that in a situation like this. He put your health in danger and your kids need to understand that in no uncertain terms - I'm not beyond playing dirty when someone is trying to make others think you're the bad guy.  I say "dirty" but it's nothing more than telling the truth and providing proof.  In a perfect world you should be able to go to them and say: I was trying to protect you but here you go, here's the truth.  oh, and about picking sides....you might ask them why they tell you they are not going to pick sides when they are doing exactly that.  I'm hoping that they will come to the realization that they only picked sides because they didn't know the truth but they need to realize that they are acting like children. 

I agree that the mother in law is way off base to make a comment like that.  But...did something happen possibly in front of her or within earshot of her to where she would feel that a comment like that was warranted?  Did you make a nasty (but well deserved) comment and maybe she over heard it?  I find it hard to believe someone would be ballsy enough to say someone needed counseling with no prompting.   You might need to make a mental note to watch it around the MIL and not give her any fuel for the fire.  And if she really is that ballsy, your daughter will get sick of it soon enough. 

Good luck Angry.  I feel for you, it's a tough situation.  Please keep us updated.  I think six months out from the wedding is more than enough time to unload your burden.

 

Last edited by Still Wondering (Tue May 9 8:09 pm)

 

Tue May 9 8:38 pm  #17


Re: Pillar of the community

Hello,
I plan to tell them that I was indeed trying to protect them by not telling them the reason for the divorce, but now my relationship with them has been tainted. My children  HAVE chosen sides without knowing the truth.
I too wondered about them thinking I was making it up in order to get back in good graces by tainting their feelings toward 'pillar of society'.
The person who did our marriage counseling was extremely disturbed about the whole situation and even called to check on me several after we stopped attending counseling.  I dragged gay ex into counseling and confronted him about a heterosexual affair after finding condoms and all of the other usual clues to an affair. To my absolute HORROR he confessed to anonymous sex with men since he was a teen including during our entire marriage and while i was pregnant, So actually he not only put my health at risk but my unborn children too! Nice guy!
I talked to marriage counselor about this situation and the counselor has agreed to sit in when I tell my children. I guess Ill tell my kids that the counselor cannot divulge details of our counseling, but is not going to sit there while I lie to my children about something of this magnitude. I also have a sworn notarized statement that my attorney had me produce during the divorce which outlines his activities. This document was submitted to the court and sealed a couple of years ago. 
As far as the future mother in law and her telling me to seek therapy- I have been a saint when it comes to negative comments about the gay ex. I have said nothing negative to my children about their Dad until this weekend when I told them that they needed the truth about the cause of divorce because I was not  going to have my relationship with them ruined when they did not know the truth. I did call him a jackass under my breath just one time when i did not know my daughter was standing behind me. The future mother in law, in same conversation in which I was told to seek therapy, told me that ex husband is very , very mad at me. 
This 'Pillar'  , I swear, has everyone eating out of his hands. There is far far more devious stuff that he has done , all after I made my discovery. He is I think attempting to intimidate and control me with his manipulations. The marriage counselor was initially very concerned for my safety and told me to never be alone with him, never get in a car with him and never eat/drink anything he had prepared. 

     Thread Starter
 

Tue May 9 9:36 pm  #18


Re: Pillar of the community

Hi Angry,

I am not a lawyer, but I do work with some court records, and if I were you I would be very careful about sharing something that is now a sealed court record, even in a confidential counseling session with your children.  Sealed records are just that, and it takes a court order to unseal them for others to view.  Anything short of that is technically breaking the law, and if The Pillar is manipulative and vindictive, you could have more trouble on your hands if he learns you have exposed a sealed record - more trouble that can then be used by The Pillar to show just how crazy and awful you are, and how he has been so right all along.

As before, I just do not know what the answers are in this situation.  My children too, took their father's side and I have not been able to break through no matter what I do, and it has been years.  I think it is a form of something like Stockholm Syndrome.  My understanding is that in situations like that, the "victims" just have to be completely away from the manipulator for an extended period to regain their own independent thinking about things.  I do not know how that can happen in a routine life situation involving children and one of their parents.


"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" - Sir Walter Scott
 

Wed May 10 2:54 am  #19


Re: Pillar of the community

Hi angry, I'm sorry if you felt I was pressurising you to divulge identifiable information, that wasn't my intention. I was just trying to get a clearer understanding of your situation.

Is the PILLAR not ever worried that any of his random "conquests" might out him if he's known locally? That baffles me, he's letting everyone think you're the crazy ex wife and all along he has a string of men who he knows nothing of their personal circumstances or if any of them could have reasons to blackmail him or just out him for the sake of it. Has he ever asked you not to divulge his secret life? Was that written into your divorce agreement or is he just relying on your good nature to keep quiet?

I think telling your children in presence of the marriage counsellor is a good idea, that's great thinking on your part. Re the sealed document you could tell them there's a sealed document the courts have seen outlining entire details, just don't disclose the exact contents of it. If they insisted on not believing you suggest seeking a court order to have them view the document, let them see you'd go to great lengths to show you were protecting them from the real truth until you feel you can't any more.

I honestly don't know how you've managed to stay without speaking of him negatively for the past few years, it has to be eating you up inside. The truth has to come out for your future and your future with your children. The more you go on without telling them the more they see you as the crazy one and the more he has them eating out of his hand.

It's a very difficult situation. I think for you it's great the marriage counsellor agreed to have you tell the children in their presence and wish you all the best with it.


Sometimes we are just the collateral damage in someone else's war against themselves
 

Wed May 10 4:40 am  #20


Re: Pillar of the community

Angry,
I am so sorry that you are in this horrible situation.  
My concern is for you.  I think that you still have so much anger and hurt because you have not been able to move on at all.  But how can you when you are basically living a lie?  His lie!!!!  You, by not speaking the truth, are still his cover.  I understand the desire to shield your children from pain, but the lie is killing you! 
They are adults and need to know the truth.  Your daughter is about to be married.  How would she feel if her husband to be goes into a marriage and then cheats on her without regard to her feelings.  Gay or not.  Your children may be angry at first,  and of course he will deny it, but I think having the truth out will set you free.  I think you will be shocked at how much holding all this in has damaged you!  That is why your kids think it's nuts.  They can't understand what they don't know.  You can't expect them too.  You need to speak the truth for your own sanity and emotional well being.  You don't need to carry HIS burden any longer.  And though your daughter's MIL was rude, a therapist may be beneficial.  You need love and support and you need to make yourself the priority right now!  Love and hugs to you!

 

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