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1 - Jupiter1
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Mad
Hi everyone,
I slept two hours last night and spent the rest of the night scrolling and reading old and new posts on this forum. Very helpful, thanks to all who have shared their stories and wisdom.
It’s been almost 4 years since I discovered my husbands secretive cross dressing. We’ve been married 42 years, long history of sexual secrets in the past and a rocky relationship. Because I’m old as f*** (sixties) this time around I had 0 patience for the behavior. We have spent the last 3 years of living together side by side, different bedrooms to see if one of us changed our mind- me accepting or him moving away from the behaviors. Guess what neither of us changed position, & his interest seems to have only grown unsurprisingly; we have two adult children who have not been spared my reactions or his dressing.
We separated Jan 1 this year, now about to commence mediation/divorce. He’s a fighter but I am determined to advocate for myself financially. I’m at that burned out, frustrated, worried, what became of my life point, & my natural inclination is to roll over and capitulate & avoid conflict. So many freakin emotions. On the upside I went from ambivalent and sad last week to charged up and ready to fight/go this week so that’s gonna help. I have a therapist to get through this and some good friends. Still so hard, right? Any of your thoughts would be appreciated to get through this spot.
Last edited by Jupiter1 (April 13, 2024 9:02 pm)
- Ellexoh_nz
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Re: Mad
Jupiter.....I didn't have an AGP partner, he was/is bisexual but who knows how far he was/is prepared to take the sexual fantasies that I know used to plague our r'ship. Back in the maelstrom of confusing do-I-leave?, does-he-love-me? what's-wrong-with-me? why-won't-he-talk-about-it? stage our life was probably a bit like yours. No intimacy, separate bedrooms, indecision (on my part not his, he thought everything was sweet). Oh the sleepless nights, the continual searching for answers online/offline/here lol
Really it took a mindset shift. A definite acceptance that as old as I was and how bloody easy & privileged my life had been....it had to change, was going to change so my focus had to shift from him to me because A has always been set in his ways, plodding on through life, reserved and quiet.
Because we're both quite amicable people and wish each other no harm or bad luck our separation has been okay apart from his surprise that I did really want to separate and that I was prepared to take half of everything that was legally ours. I found a lawyer who helped "women to work through their separation or divorce smartly and with less stress- looking after their hearts, their heads and their wallets" (that's from her website)
and even though I cringe every time I get a bill from her I try my best to keep the communication down lol
It takes a strong woman to accept such a monumental shift in her life. We have to be emotionally stronger than the men we leave. So Jupiter....my best advice is to stop caring about what your husband may be doing or thinking or planning (I used the mantra of "it doesn't matter anymore" that I said to myself every time (and I mean every time) a worm of doubt or concern tried to push its way into my thoughts. Accept you'll never change who your husband is and concentrate on the person who matters....you 
Elle
Edit to add; leave your phone in the kitchen at night!! Buy a small radio and listen to music if you can find a station with few blaringly noisy ads. Or listen to talkback. Other peoples voices will stop your own niggly thoughts from intruding.
Last edited by Ellexoh_nz (April 11, 2024 3:13 pm)
KIA KAHA
- Rob
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Re: Mad
Jupiter1,
So sorry. It baffles me what goes through their minds...3 years is a long time living like that and I would argue that even a normal roommate would treat one better.. I think you have done your time.
I would advise against mediation if it can be helped. One reason is because in my area if there is any issue after divorce one needs to go back to mediation.. How reasonable will these spouses be in any dealings when they feel they were entitled to marry and then hurt us for years...
Regardless, with the help of my lawyer I was able to stick up for myself and say NO. (No I will not go live on the street and give up the children and die. I will sell body organs before I give up my time with the kids...you cannot fathom or comprehend the lengths I will go to for the kids.).
Be prepared for wrath as we the loving and loyal spouse say one simple but strong word...No.
Thoughts of strength and stoicism.
"For we walk by faith, not by sight .." 2Corinthians 5:7
- Jupiter1
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Re: Mad
Thanks Elle for the thought to focus on what I need.. and encouragement to stay away from compelling reading at 4 am. I hope you are finding peace in a separated living situation.
Rob in the wee hours last night I did read your account of some of the nightmare you went through with your ex-narc and I’m very sorry for the ringer you went through. I’m impressed by your strength and recovery in years since. You and Elle are such clarion supporters here, extending yourselves to help others in crisis. Thank you both.
I was worked up to forgo mediation exactly because my husband is controlling, calculated, and in denial of how he has affected his family. A divorce coach I consulted then said that traditional divorce with two attorneys when you have a hothead just escalates conflict and is lucrative for the attorneys. The counselor suggested adding a couples counselor to the attorney mediator mix, & added for the sake of our children to dial down the conflict. At the start of this separation process I was hoping for an amicable divorce but recently I’m wondering if I could ever have a family dinner again with my ex after our arguments.
But I hear you re mediation and feel concerned about that route. Any success stories on divorce with 1or 2 attorneys and or a divorce coach that didn’t 1. Break the bank, or 2. Result in a poor outcome for the straight spouse?
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Thread Starter- lily
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Re: Mad
Jupiter, you are doing very well. Unfortunately things are likely to get worse not better for a little while as you navigate the divorce process.
My ex had been preparing for the possibility of divorce for years before I even knew he was gay in denial. And then I discovered that he wasn't the nice guy he presented himself as.
My lawyer told me what the court would award and we agreed on that.
I got some good advice from a friend who told me that the family court is full of couples going bankrupt fighting over their divorce and at the end of the day the judge is still going to award the same split as they would have anyway.
So I would say this to him periodically when he was being difficult, fortunately it made sense to him too.
I don't know quite how to put this in words but it is becoming clear to me that when a straight is caught in a long term marriage they have survived for years in this environment and part of how we do this is in a unique to ourselves way we build ivory towers where we are safe from all the lies, gaslighting, illogics and deception.
I wasn't really aware of it, from my perspective I had retired into my studio and finally realised that I had gone from the hoping he would come and visit of the early days to hoping he would stay away and really wanting him to leave if he did come.
So a sort of protective mechanism. Like a citrus tree with a gall wasp - grows extra bark around the wasp nest to keep it out from where the sap is running.
Now, in order to get through the process of divorce you have to interact with him. Not fun. Incredibly stressful. By the time I achieved a divorce I felt like I was being carried out of there on a stretcher. I still think of my lawyer with so much gratitude, she knew just how to help me through. So no advice, just my sympathy and a light at the end of the tunnel - once it is over you are free of him.
There's no second take on a divorce, you live with the consequences, so my encouragement is to stick at getting a fair deal, don't settle for less.
- Jupiter1
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Re: Mad
That really does make sense. I’ve had more contact with him since separation trying to talk finances etc than the previous 3 years when we lived together but I was distancing. So glad you are on the other side Lily with no more stretcher needed
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Thread Starter- Ellexoh_nz
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Re: Mad
Jupiter1 wrote:
Any success stories on divorce with 1or 2 attorneys and or a divorce coach that didn’t 1. Break the bank, or 2. Result in a poor outcome for the straight spouse? My lawyer had suggested the 'divorce coach' thing. I thought she was kidding! For us it was unnecessary and just another way for you to hand your money over. Unless you're confident that it'll be worthwhile (and only you will know that).......
Do you feel it would help?
KIA KAHA
- Rob
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Re: Mad
Jupiter1,
Yeah I refer to my divorce as my 2.5 years in hell. It doesnt have to be that way with a normal spouse ...but my GX had these delusions that:
a.) She was in control of the divorce.. At one point she sent a letter to the lawyers and me saying just that.
b.) I was not to see the children except every other weekend.
c.) Both her and her girlfriend would both not work and buy a big house together. for themselves and the kids.. myself and the other straight husband would pay for everything.
So the when none of that was true the wrath and costs escalated. Lily is right in that the outcome is basically the same no matter how you divorce...each gets basically what the law allows. I guess the real question is how entitled and narcissistic your husband is and which you feel he can manipulate more.. a mediator or 2 lawyers.. In my case my GX ... she lied to the family mediator that I was a bad father.. I knew then and there that I chose correctly as any stranger could not tell if she was lying or telling the truth. It was the scariest and lowest point in my life on this planet..
Whatever you do ...do it once and be free of him.. life is so short and there is little use is wasting anymore time with a hurtful spouse that would rather we be dead.
Thoughts of strength and fierce stoic resolve..
Last edited by Rob (April 12, 2024 6:25 am)
"For we walk by faith, not by sight .." 2Corinthians 5:7
- Jupiter1
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Re: Mad
I am so exhausted with advice from professionals and the insistence of my spouse on his perspective, I am finding it hard to access my take on all this.
1. I have a long standing therapist who thinks my spouse is mean and cross dressing is not a big deal.
2. I consulted with a divorce coach on my own who is very LGBTQ friendly and spent my individual session trying to figure out where my spouse is on his gender journey. At his advice I started talking finances with my spouse who took offense and is battling me about day to day spending. I tend to be frugal, he is more indulgent with spending. Which is ok but he’s turning the tables on me and accusing me of excessive spending. This is how mediation will go I’m sure.
3. My spouse is controlling and interested in parsing his identifications with me . He’s also out and about in public dressing as a female at this point but unwilling to tell our kids about his cross dressing. He has a very coddling therapist who I believe is cheering him on at every turn. I feel very paranoid around him and truly feel he does not have the best interests of me or his children in mind.
I really want to go and hide. Still not sleeping. Crying and finding it hard to focus on work. Maybe I need to slow down the finances/mediation process to regroup. I also just fired the LGBTQ divorce coach. Ugh you all are a Godsend, thank you for your support.
Last edited by Jupiter1 (April 12, 2024 6:38 am)
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Thread Starter- lily
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Re: Mad
Jupiter, I am wondering what is happening with your children, have you told them you are getting divorced yet? would they help you?
You need support, family support if you can get it.
A therapist who thinks cross dressing is not a big deal? sorry to hear that.
A cross dressing husband who is accusing you of overspending? that sounds like he is spending an awful lot on himself.
I wouldn't delay, he will only take more. Anybody who can advise you on who to hire as your lawyer? I was lucky to have a friend who was a lawyer and he was able to advise us on who to hire, each with our own lawyer. It made all the difference.
My ex and I worked on the separation agreement via email, sometimes we were literally sitting opposite each other writing emails. The point is that you have to achieve the separation agreement and no personal comment involved.
Looking back it oh, really it's quite scary to look back, but at the time I stayed calm, calm is good. From his perspective, the way he felt about it, it was All his. But the law does not see it that way and he knew it, it was in his interests as well as mine not to spend more than we needed to on lawyers fees.
We kept going back and forth with the emailed list until we had something we could give the lawyers.