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1 of 1- LonelyDude
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Might she be lesbian, or am I really just that bad of a husband?
Hi all, I apologize in advance for venting, but I really need some other opinions. I think my wife (20 years, 3 kids) might be lesbian in denial, and that her deeply religious background might be blinding her to the possibility. As I read this forum, I see so many instances that seem to describe my own marriage.
I have flaws--lots of them. My own flaws led me to a period of infidelity which ended 7 years ago when I finally confessed. I was intoxicated by the realization that women actually find me attractive and desirable. I am seeing a mental health professional to work through my own issues. Maybe I'll share them here someday.
We married as virgins. Romantic issues started while we were dating (attempts to demasculate me), and sexual issues started during the honeymoon. I had a lightbulb moment about 2 months ago that she might not be heterosexual/heteroromantic. As I read about MOMs, it seemed to perfectly describe our entire relationship.
Here is what I see in her:
- She prefers to be in charge; even "teamwork" has to be based on her preferences. To the point of being controlling of other people's actions/ideas.
- She listed qualities that she finds romantically/sexually attractive: gentleness, submission, empathy, emotional vulnerability, sensitivity, dependence.
- She continuously reminds me that I don't meet her needs very well; I strive for strength, courage, innovation, wisdom, and independence.
- She sees sex as a sacrificial act to appease me, and it's always been our primary source of conflict.
- She needs me to portray her attractive qualities to get in a good enough mood to tolerate intimacy with me.
- She prefers sex to be short and sweet ("Are you almost done?"), while I prefer to savor the experience.
- There was rarely any seductiveness or sexual exploration. Very prudish, even as newlyweds.
- She has verbally used the words "I am asexual" several times.
- She has verbalized, several times, that she completely understands why women become lesbian.
- She has expressed a fantasy that she was a nun, living in a convent (in front of our kids!!).
- She can climax from clitoral stimulation, but not penetration.
- Repeated phrases like "men are disgusting" and "I hate penises".
- She comments on how beautiful other women are, and I've caught her staring. I have never once heard a positive comment about a man being attractive or seen even a glance.
- She puts almost zero effort into her physical attractiveness. I found her very attractive when we were dating, but she sees no reason to maintain herself. In my darker moments, I feel like she is sabotaging my physical attraction to her.
- Her appearance and conduct is not feminine. She acts and dresses very frumpy. Not that she's manly; she's just "unisex".
- She can't tolerate hetero sex scenes (even PG-13), and is so disgusted she leaves the room. I haven't seen any reaction to a lesbian scene, so I have no idea how she would handle it.
- Her ideal "date night" is sitting on the porch, drinking wine and talking about feelings.
- She spends a night or two each week with her ladyfriends, sitting on the porch, drinking wine, and talking about feelings.
- She goes on a weekend getaway with her ladyfriends a few times a year, doing things similar to what we used to do on romantic getaways.
- I haven't seen any overt lesbian behavior. She'll hold hands and do kisses on the cheek, and she told me about times that she and her friends would compare boobs/nipples with each other.
- She has only ever complimented one of my physical qualities: she says I have nice nipples. No comments about the athletic physique I work hard to maintain.
After my lighbulb moment (2 months ago), I spent the first week doing nothing different other than not making sexual advances on her. I feel like her mood actually improved, and she seemed happier. The second week was when she asked "So, do you want sex?" and I politely declined "No, thank you". That's when she knew something was up. I brought up my concern and new theory; she blatantly denied it and stated that all women are this way (at least all her friends) and that I need to fix myself. We tried being intimate a couple more times, but I just can't enjoy it with the thought that it is unwanted and unenjoyable (maybe repulsive) for her. Nobody should have to live that way.
I don't know what to do. I care for her and want her to be happy. She is the mother of my children and has endured a lot of crap during our marriage. I truly want her to find the romantic/sexual fulfillment that she needs, but I don't think I'm the one that can provide it for her. And I feel so lonely and empty inside, without a Lover of my own. What do I do?
Last edited by LonelyDude (October 6, 2023 6:27 pm)
- PJ
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Re: Might she be lesbian, or am I really just that bad of a husband?
Hey Dude,
There is a lot I identify with in your post and also a lot of stuff I think seems confused. Some of the behaviours are just not specifically lesbian to me. I will break it down below. Having said that some of these behaviours (controlling etc) are a pretty good reason to leave a relationship regardless of whether or not your wife is lesbian.
not red flags for me regarding sexual orientation BUT POSSIBLY RED FLAGS FOR ANY RELATIONSHIP
- She prefers to be in charge; even "teamwork" has to be based on her preferences. To the point of being controlling of other people's actions/ideas.
- She continuously reminds me that I don't meet her needs very well; I strive for strength, courage, innovation, wisdom, and independence.
- She puts almost zero effort into her physical appearance. In my darker moments, I feel like she is sabotaging my physical attraction to her.
Red flags for sexual orientation (in my opinion)
- She sees sex as a sacrificial act to appease me, and it's always been a source of conflict.
- She prefers sex to be short and sweet ("Are you almost done?"), while I prefer to savor the experience.
- She has verbally used the words "I am asexual" several times.
- Repeated phrases like "men are disgusting" and "I hate penises".
- She comments on how beautiful other women are, and I've caught her staring. I have never once heard a positive comment about a man being attractive or seen even a glance.
- She can't tolerate hetero sex scenes (even PG-13), and is so disgusted she leaves the room. I haven't seen any reaction to a lesbian scene, so I have no idea how she would handle it.
- She has only ever complimented one of my physical qualities: she says I have nice nipples. No comments about the athletic physique I work hard to maintain.
I really identify with a couple of these.
One thought experiment I tried recently was taking all the red-flag incidents which have happened with my wife and flipping the gender. Imagine a female friend of yours came to you for some advice about her partner. "Hey, Dude, I'm worried my boyfriend might be gay - can I run a few things by you?" She proceeds to list all the red flags incidents you have experienced with your wife - but from a guy. E.G - . HE comments on how beautiful other MEN are, and I've caught HIM staring. I have never once heard a positive comment about a WOMAN being attractive or seen even a glance.
Do you see what I mean? Imagine a man saying "Women are disgusting" or "I hate vaginas".
Once I flipped the genders and looked at the signs from a detatched perspective, I really began to see the high probability that my wife is gay.
Last edited by PJ (October 4, 2023 10:19 am)
- LonelyDude
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Re: Might she be lesbian, or am I really just that bad of a husband?
Thanks PJ, it feels validating for a third-party to see some of the same red flags that I do.
This lady is my family, and I want her to be happy. I don't think she'll ever find happiness when she is in denial. I just want her to confront her own truth.
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Thread Starter- CaptainLiqr
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Re: Might she be lesbian, or am I really just that bad of a husband?
Hi LonelyDude,
I can completely relate to your experience, many of my observations of my wife are identical, i can simply copy-paste your bullets! We are in our fifties, married for 25 years with two grown-up daughters.
Here is what I observed :
- She prefers to be in charge; even "" has to be based on her preferences. To the point of being controlling of other people's actions/ideas.
- She continuously reminds me that I don't meet her needs very well [typically several times a day with “Why didn’t you…?”, “You could have done …”, “I told you already…”, “You never listen”, “I’m fed up when your crises…”]
- She sees sex as a sacrificial act to appease me, [for years i actually avoid approaching her most of the time]
- There was rarely any seductiveness or sexual exploration. Very prudish, even as newlyweds.
- She has verbalized, several times, that she completely understands why women become lesbian. (She often likes to tell how progressive they were at her university in the eighties by having a lesbian club)
- Repeated phrases like "men are disgusting" and whenever there are news about a case of abusive behaviour she immediately generalizes it to “men always …”
- She does not dare to comment on how beautiful other women are, but I've caught her staring. I have never once heard a positive comment about a man being attractive or seen even a glance.
She caught me staring at young girls a few times, but on some occasions she “caught” me before I even had noticed thise girls, i.e. she noticed them herself before me and I think in a kind of act of deflection/projection she chooses to accuse me as she is unable to acknowledge “I like those girls”
- She puts almost zero effort into her physical attractiveness. I found her very attractive when we were dating, but she sees no reason to maintain herself. In my darker moments, I feel like she is sabotaging my physical attraction to her. (During shopping, i’ve given up making any suggestions what clothes to try on, as she ALWAYS dismisses my tastes; my conclusion is that she definitely does NOT want to appear beautiful to me)
- Her appearance and conduct is not feminine. She acts and dresses very frumpy. Not that she's manly; she's just "unisex".(yep, same poloshirts and jeans everyday since i know her)
- She can't tolerate hetero sex scenes, not even kissing scenes and is so disgusted she leaves the room, or she starts turning away, grumbling, talking about an unrelated topic. I haven't seen any reaction to a lesbian scene, so I have no idea how she would handle it. (I’d actually like to take her to a surprise evening out to a lesbian cinema movie, have not yet found am appropriate viewing, but am so curious to see her reaction)
- Her ideal "date night" is sitting on the sofa, drinking wine and watching TV until 1am (when she is sure that I’m already asleep).
- She goes twice a week to swim with her ladyfriend followed by lunch out. I noticed after the vacation that she dresses up nicely for that occasion like she never does for me.
- She goes on a weekend getaway with her ladyfriends once everybcouple years.
- I haven't seen any overt lesbian behavior.
- She has never ever complimented my physical qualities.
She btw also avoids completely meeting people she does not know, and appears terribly angry (or depressed) whenever i go to one of my leisure activities.
And: She completely sabotages any talk about potential future grandchildren, or what husbands the daughters may end up with one day , by insisting eg. that this is not a given, that by no means we can impose them that . Seems like she wants her daughters to come out in her place. That makes me particularly sad that she discourages her daughters from dreaming what their futures might look like.
After years of begging i got her to accept some partnership counseling soon.
I did not dare to confront her yet with my suspicion as I expect the same angry reaction as you mention.
Wish you good luck!
- Blue Bear
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Re: Might she be lesbian, or am I really just that bad of a husband?
So getting to the title of your post...
You are not that bad of a husband. You are only bad at being the lesbian that your wife never told you she needed.
- lily
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Re: Might she be lesbian, or am I really just that bad of a husband?
well put, Blue Bear!
it's not just that you're not getting the emotionality of a straight wife, you're being told off for not being a lesbian.
- lily
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Re: Might she be lesbian, or am I really just that bad of a husband?
"When entering the years of dust, perhaps dust is best left un-broomed?"
That's an intensely personal question in that it's a myriad of details in your life that affect your choices in what you might or might not want to leave undisturbed.
There's definitely an instinct at play towards disclosure. Back in my 40's I remember my mother talking with me about having family secrets and wondering whether she should tell, she ended up taking them to the grave with her but the feeling I got was she regretted not telling me then - not too much because she had accomplished the biggest thing on her plate - even though she was in her old age, she left my father. In doing so she put the ground under my feet as well as hers.
So there are family considerations and where you are talking about keeping the peace then it makes me think you could find yourself in hot water with your wife, how to deal with that also comes into play. And then we get to the basic thing - thriving in your own life.
Personally I am getting old enough for it to limit what I can do but it doesn't change the way I see life, it is romance that is wise - cupid rules!
I have always felt like that, as a child and now, I think it is pretty normal - there's a basic deep instinctive wisdom in romantic love that is being routinely trampled into the ground.
Learning I had been tricked into spending my entire adult life propping up a closet has been a huge shock - 2 years was barely enough to get over the initial shock and get away from him. Then I started to look around me more - there are lots of people in MOMs.
- Ellexoh_nz
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Re: Might she be lesbian, or am I really just that bad of a husband?
MrLagop wrote:
....Sometimes I wonder if confronting is the best option for happiness after we become seniors...
I'm 65. I knew 6 years ago something had to change. I could have stayed with my partner of 38 years, and been well taken care of, privileged even.
I, you, him, her come to a point where we know it's time to go. It's scary, it's challenging, money is tight, the stress is real...
....but after I left, finally!, I knew I would face anything rather than go back to the uncertainty of life with a man who desired sexual exploration with other men, even though he said he never would.
Elle
KIA KAHA