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June 24, 2016 5:28 pm  #1


Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

Kel and Still Wondering helped me out a bunch a month or so back with general questions about online dating. Since I haven't been on a first date since 1995, needless to say I needed the advice!

So here's where I am and I'm going to be very frank about a couple of topics, so be forewarned.

I tried three different sites, and one seemed to work best for me. You all were right -- you just put a photo or two out there and man are there a lot of interested guys, about 90% of which I'd never date. Let's just say I live in an area that is full of beach bums, good ole boys, and people of the opposite political persuasion. 

I've only encountered one that I'm truly interested in meeting, but he really does stick out because he seems genuine and his introductory e-mail was not along the lines of "hey pretty mermaid, I can't believe no one has reeled you in yet." <insert gagging sound here -- yes I really did receive that in an email> Just a nice guy (from what I can tell from about 20 emails back and forth over a couple of weeks). We finally got into more personal discussion and I (with EXTREME trepidation) told him about my gay spouse. I couldn't believe how laid back he was about it, saying this was the third time he'd personally known of this happening. He mentioned all the guys were in their 40s, two gay and one trans. It was very refreshing to see that what I might perceive as a potential train wreck, he pretty much could care less about, except to be very nice to say how hard it must be on my kids and me.

His own divorce was run of the mill, lucky him.

Now here's where my HUGEST insecurity of all comes in and I've mentioned this maybe once before on the forum. I have an anxiety disorder, which means I sometimes suffer from panic attacks. I have had these since I was a teenager. My nearly-XGIDH and I started dating when I was 20. He was always very understanding about my illness, for lack of a better term. He knew all about it before we married. He saw me through two bouts, one about 4 months long and another about 2 months long of severe anxiety, the first when we were in our early 20s and just married and one after our second child was born. At other times, when I had panic attacks that were severe enough, I would call him and he would help me work my way out of them. He also helped with corresponding phobias, which for me almost always had to do with driving. My particular phobias include bridges and interstates and driving very long distances from home. (This is very common in case you are now scrunching your foreheads and wondering if I'm nuts -- 1/4 adults in their lifetime, and the most common mental illness. Still, it's hard to write about, because it is not something I am proud of.) Sometimes these attacks would come often, but as the years went by became more and more infrequent and less a part of our lives. I have been able to work, tote the kids around town, etc. Several times during our marriage I apologized for the two bouts that were longer, or would insecurely ask my husband if it bothered him being married to someone with panic disorder or helping me when I had the attacks. He always reassured me that there was no problem, and that really my disorder didn't affect our family life much at all.

Fast forward to last summer. His father, a huge homophobe, died suddenly. He started acting angry, defensive, and weird. He announced his bisexuality, then his need to have sex with men, I balked at an open marriage, hardly believing my ears, then he left me. I was devastated, and still am, because I had no clue this was coming and thought we had a great marriage. Twenty years and three children down the tubes in a matter of months. And 20 years of knowing this and not telling me. Having had sex with men before we were married. I'm still stunned with a mixture of loss and wanting to beat his brains out with my bare hands. The good news is I don't feel like I'm in love with him anymore, which I did oh so much for months after disclosure. I just miss the life we had. He gets to go back to his successful career while I have to change everything in my life. And I mean everything.

Then the worst thing happened: he wrote me a couple of emails and we had several face to face convos about my anxiety. He told me that he had hidden from me all these years how much it bothered him, how overly dependent I was on him, how much he hated being in a caretaker role for me, and how our marriage had been based on all the wrong things from the start -- namely him caring for me. This theme has come up over and over. He never mentioned his sexuality again, except to reiterate that he is bi (he REFUSES to admit he's gay) so that he could have just as easily left me for a woman as a man, he just had to get away from me and that if I looked inside myself I'd see why he had to leave. And there, was I happy that I now had the answers I had asked for so many times?

Now this was a major blow. Pretend you had a giant port wine stain on your face and your spouse told you for 20 years it didn't bother him. In fact, it made him love you more, because you were so tough or so sensitive due to having dealt with it. Then he tells you he's leaving you and he lied. That thing on your face is so ugly it made him want to puke for two decades straight. Years of therapy where I learned to accept and love myself and feel like my anxiety was just a part of me, not THE defining part of me, went down the tubes very quickly. Because my husband had always been a nice guy and very caring and so surely if this is the reason he says he's leaving, it must be true. Or perhaps, as I learned on this site, lots of these GIDs pick our softest spots and trample all over them, because if they look in the mirror and acknowledge they've blown their spouses and children to bits, that might make their heads explode from guilt. Always easier to blame the spouse. (Yet even as I type that, I feel flawed to the core due to his words and my own insecurity.)

Now to circle back to dating ... I am of course NOWHERE near telling any guy I might date about my anxiety, as it is personal and would have to come later ... in a real relationship. But after what my spouse has said, repeatedly and in so many different ways, my self-esteem is pretty much gouged and I believe NO ONE will ever want to take on a 41-year-old divorcee with an ex gay spouse, three kids, and an anxiety disorder. I mean, really. 

So why in the hell do I want to date anyway? My mother certainly thinks I'm nuts for even considering it. Well, because my husband has been gone 10 months, all my friends are married and busy with their kids, there are no divorce support groups in this town, and I'm BORED and LONELY when the kids are at Daddy Disneyland with Daddy and the bf he picked up and moved in with just 6 weeks after he left me. And also I will mention that I have not had sex with a straight person in 21 years and I'd like to see what I've been missing out on! But I am now SO DAMNED INSECURE, feeling like a marked woman. I'm in therapy to try to deal with all this (including being abandoned by my dad at age 5 -- my husband always talked about what an asshole my dad was -- how quaint, which makes the trauma of the last year even worse, according to my therapist, as I'm feeling unlovable and all-around rejected and then my marriage and life, which I was so secure in, completely fell apart -- where is Susan, she knows all about this stuff and I haven't seen her on the new board!) 

My mother argues I need to heal before dating, but can't I just go out for fun and maybe get some action???

Your input and expertise are needed! I still cry a lot, I have been traumatized, grief is still a daily part of my existence, so maybe she's right, but at any rate, I'd like to know what you all think about the anxiety and dating at this point in the process. Maybe I need to wait longer? SW I thought it was you who met Prince Charming right after and he ended up being a liar and that caused you even more trauma?


 

Last edited by Sue (June 24, 2016 9:06 pm)


"You want a man who messes up your lipstick, not your mascara."
 

June 25, 2016 8:03 am  #2


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

Sue

I said here before but based on your posts I'd date you sight unseen.  I'm not hitting on you..rather just trying to show you that your past to me makes you stronger..less shallow ...authentic..

After going through TGT I know I'm an empath and am not ashamed of it..but like you it does mean I'm open to getting hurt I think. 

I have not dated either..im in my late 40s.. I say meet the guy and get to know him..trust your gut if anything is off.  Know your not in a hurry for anything serious.    Your anxiety you can tell him about layer when there is more trust.

Good for you ...keep us updated...dying to know how a date goes after all this.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

June 25, 2016 10:36 pm  #3


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

Now you listen here, Sue - there is NOTHING wrong with you.  Millions of people have anxiety disorder - it's a fairly common affliction. My daughter has it. Do I wish she didn't? Sure - for her sake.  But I don't love her any less for it. I don't view her as damaged. I have one kid who's quiet and introverted. And I have one who is prone to anxiety and depression. It's just who they ARE. Just like I'm loud. Or my husband is bald. Or my dog is black.  It's part of a description of who they each are.  It's not WHO they are.  It's only a small part of them. Just like your anxiety is a piece of who you are.  Don't let it define you.

I was 42 when I met my current dh. I was maybe 280 lbs. I had a gay ex and a MIL who still lived with me. And 3 kids.  One of whom was (is) mentally unbalanced.  My life had baggage.  So.fucking.what!  You know what happened? I met a wonderful man and he was (is) CRAZY about me. I'd wonder why, except that he tells me all the time why. He thinks I'm beautiful. And sexy. I'm a wonderful cook, I keep beautiful house. I'm intelligent, funny, outgoing, spontaneous and kind.  I'm a good mom.  I'm hard-working and selfless. I'm giving, love animals, embrace life, forgive easily, and love hard.  None of these things are "in spite" of my (now) 300 lb. body, or previous marriage situation, or the fact that I talk in my sleep a lot.  He loves me for who I AM, and he thinks I'm plenty of something.

HE is bald. And overweight.  Divorced twice.  Has an argument style that drives me fucking nuts.  And he's also cute as hell, hard-working, intelligent, chivalrous, sexy, attentive, giving, strong, funny, patient, and loving.  The kind of guy who helps old ladies lift things into their cars in the parking lot at the store. Who washes my car for me every weekend. Pays more attention to my kids than their real dad does.  I know he's fat.  And I don't care. Because I LOVE HIM.  There is no perfect person. But there is perfect for me. And I'm perfect for him.  And there is perfect for you, too.  And you know what perfect for you would include? Someone who loves you and accepts your anxiety and helps you through it.

Your ex took a lot from you. Don't let him take even more by affecting how you feel about yourself. You know who you are.  Love yourself.  Look for someone else who can love you just that hard or even moreso.  Even without you being perfect.  Just like you do with everyone in your life you love.

Kel


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

June 26, 2016 12:03 am  #4


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

God bless you, Kel. "Now you listen here" made me LOL!!!

Thank you!!!!!!  You.are.awesome. Don't leave this forum ... We new Str8s need you!

And Rob, you are so kind and such a gentleman. A truly Godly man. I can't wait to see you kick out the lezex and find a woman who is as good as you are. Seriously. No smoke being blown.

Last edited by Sue (June 26, 2016 12:04 am)


"You want a man who messes up your lipstick, not your mascara."
     Thread Starter
 

June 26, 2016 8:53 am  #5


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

Kel. You say it like it is.  Still waiting for your book.

Sue..Thanks..we just want to hear about your date.. for you to tell us theirs still good people out there.  Truth be told I've met a lot of good people on my journey out of her closet..the problem I'm having is even worst person is nicer than my lezex.

Don't worry..you're all invited to my big party I'm having when she's gone.

Last edited by Rob (June 26, 2016 8:54 am)


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

June 26, 2016 2:24 pm  #6


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

Hi Sue,

Yes, it was me who met the "love of their life" while I was waiting to finalize my divorce.  He didn't come from the internet, he came from a good friend who had told me for years (while I was wasting time with my ex and his gay porn) that she knew a guy who was my exact match.  She was right.  I agreed to meet him when she told me that he too was separated.  While I thought we were both finalizing our crap, he was apparently either a) outright lying or b) just truly chickened out and didn't want to give up his house, ranch, boat, etc and have to give his ex half - again, I'd like to stress that I did not, in any way know that he wasn't actually getting divorced.  This was not an affair.  I guess because when I say "I'm separated and just waiting to finalize things" that a man who also says this is as sincere as me.  Whatever.  Either way, whatever his reason was, he tore my heart out worse than my GID ex did.  This is due in part to the fact that we really were the exact same person (just male vs female) AND the fact that after having everything ripped from me I was down on my knees thanking God that after so much BS he had sent me the perfect match for me. 

Now - looking back at all that....as much hell as it was, I wouldn't change a thing.  I learned sooo much about what I want and need from going through that time in my life.  That was something like three years ago.  I've dated a few people, had two serious relationships since then.  It has made me more picky, and that's ok.  Even if he was too good to be true, I now know exactly what I expect, no, demand from a relationship in order to be truly happy.  I won't accept anything less. 

After he broke my heart I remember my boss telling me, you just wait and see, he'll be back.  And I'll be damned, he sure did show back up.  Except this time I'm armed with the knowledge that he's married and staying married and I find that disgusting.  He tries to check in with me via text or email about once a month and each time I've told him to piss off.  A few months ago I stopped answering all together.  And that is that.

Now - about your insecurities....I get it, I do.  But we all have our shit, you know?  I'm 43, almost 44.  I have said over and over: who on earth is going to date a 40 something with herpes!  I wouldn't!  But I've been up front and honest about it and I have yet to meet one person who has a problem with it.  I have no idea why.  wait, there was one guy but I wouldn't have dated him seriously in the first place.  I suppose I attribute it to the fact that by the time we reach our 40s people realize you have baggage.  We may all have different baggage but baggage none the less.  My experience with a few of the guys I've dated is that they come from a place like Rob has, where their ex was a holy terror and when they realize there are nice, loving women out there they are accepting of the baggage we may come with because they have some of their own.  Am I rambling or does this make sense?? 

I work with a guy who has anxiety and panic disorder.  He's had plenty of girlfriends after his divorce and none of them have ever seemed to care.  He's on medication which helps him.  You're right, you don't have to disclose anything right away.  But when you find a nice guy that you click with, then just tell it like it is - if he doesn't like it he can move on.  But there is MORE to you than your panic disorder!  There is love and kindness and probably 50 other things I could think of if I knew you personally. 

I disagree with your mother.  Sometimes it takes getting out there with other adults in order to move on.  Had I not met the guy my friend introduced me to I probably would have sat in my apartment for another year.  I noticed that once I started getting out there I was back to my old self again.  And it was the exact same thing after things didn't work out with that guy.  I gave myself a month to lay around and feel sorry for myself and did a lot of crying (I didn't waste years like I did with my GID ex) and then I got my ass up and went out and started talking to neighbors and met a whole new group of people that way.  That was just lucky - if I had to go off of my neighbors now I'd never meet a soul - they are lame and never come out of their homes!!

Good luck Sue!  You can do this!

 

June 26, 2016 3:00 pm  #7


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

Sue, I don't have a lot of time to write an answer b/c I am running out.  But I just read your post and I say "Girl, go out and date if you want to." If you find out you are not ready to date than so be it. You have just gone through one of the most anxiety producing experiences in a life time (TGT).  Now is the time to heal and be kind to yourself.  Now is the time to make it about you; not  them.

YRUEou have a lot of negative people, including your XH, in your life sowing a lot of negative seeds in your mind. You own your mind, not them. Guard it from negative input.  You are perfectly imperfect just the way you are.

None of us is perfect and they (your XH and your Mom) aren't perfect either. You are TRYING! And that is very positive and a huge accomplishment after TGT.  If you can't find more positive and supportive people to hang out with, be your own cheerleader.  Or come back here, we will cheerlead for you.

 

 

June 26, 2016 3:59 pm  #8


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

Thank you all soooooo much. My husband has made such a big deal out of pointing out my anxiety that I just felt so unwanted and could barely wrap my grieving mind around him telling me it didn't bother him for 20 years and then all the sudden it was the worst thing ever -- he just had to get away from me. I trusted him so much. It was like when Rob's wife accused him of cheating and even though he NEVER did, he had to stop for a second and ask himself, did I cheat? That's how much I looked up to my husband -- I believed every word he ever said. And when he told me my anxiety was the reason for leaving me, it just scarred my soul even more than I thought possible. He's not a narcissist and we didn't go through years of gas lighting and abuse. It just all happened VERY quickly and it hurts like hell to be betrayed two times -- first by finding out the "love of your life" is gay and then by being told he's really leaving because of you. Now if anyone told my friends something like that, I'd be like -- what the hell, why are you listening to that asshole?!? But when it's me, I'm my own worse critic and it just confirmed for me my worst fear -- that I am too flawed for anyone. 


"You want a man who messes up your lipstick, not your mascara."
     Thread Starter
 

June 26, 2016 4:06 pm  #9


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

Oh, and Rob, there is no date yet! We have talked lots and lots of times and he started by introducing himself, so I'm starting to wonder if there ever will be one. I'm not sure whether to just go out on a limb and risk asking him or wait. I'm nervous about rejection. Although I don't know why he'd keep responding with lengthy emails and our conversations have moved to the more personal (talking about exes, relationships, TGT, etc) if he wasn't a wee bit interested. 

Last edited by Sue (June 26, 2016 4:07 pm)


"You want a man who messes up your lipstick, not your mascara."
     Thread Starter
 

June 26, 2016 4:20 pm  #10


Re: Online dating: for Kel/Still Won (& anyone else who wants to chime in)

No problem sue...
I'll be available in a couple of weeks..haha.  seriously though..guy is a fool for not replying to you.  I think you and eveyone here have a lot more to offer than many people out there.  The last thing any of us need is some middle aged narcissist or someone thats capable of great hurt.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

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