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Tue Sep 20 7:14 am  #1


She is not "a lesbian"...

Hi,
having read many posts, on this forum and others, I still question myself why I continue to seek such.
I find there is so many experiences, and even more good advice, but I still seek to find someone feeling something similar to my gut feeling. And, there is not many around me, whom I can share and discuss such thoughts.
 
The trouble I have with my gut feeling, I guess is obvious - there is no proof of anything, and this puts my judgement on test. I may be overthinking, may be jumping to over suspicion, even falsely thinking there is a gut feeling.
 
Thing is, my wife (42, me 44), after 10 years together, started changing, in little ways. What caught my attention first was her sudden focus on watching particular women, in public. It was new to me, I think I would have noticed this before, if she did.
 
To me she was checking them out, especially when my attention was elsewhere, and it seemed to fascinate her, maybe turn her on..
 
Later I asked her and she totally denied. She denied even noticing any person. Later she has admitted yes, she had noticed someone particular, but out of pure curiosity of some sort, nothing related to attraction.
 
I believe she can look at whatever she wants. And I know women look at other women, to compare, see outfit etc, I don't know. In a normal, "non suspiscious way".
 
But this seemed different. I thought I knew her ways well, and this was totally different. I could see her body language change. And every time, she scratches her wrist, touch her face, often finger on her lips, maybe cross her legs, twirls her hair. Especially if there was reason to believe she found them "hot".
 
Over time I have learned to know her types; beautiful, stunning women will attract her attention for sure. Then there is busty women, and then there is the feminine, but "butch" personality type. A strong personality female. If these qualities come combined, I can tell she probably will try a cheeky comment, throw a joke etc… she is good at banter.
 
A couple years later from these first observations, she went on a few business trips (not a regular thing for her).

During the period prior to this, her interest in sex had been was average to low. So I talked to her, presenting my view that communication regarding sex was important, for us not to end up sleeping in different rooms etc.. In the years past, she had only medium to less interest in sex. Then we had kids, and things were naturally "cooled down". All in all, her desire for sex was lower than mine through all years, and it felt like "my problem", only.
 
When she came home from these trips she was really first quite moody, then really horny. During the 3-4 weeks following this trip, her libido skyrocketed, and of course I was blown away, happy, but questioned why..? I made no issue of it, other than I asked her, we talked in a good way about it, but she could not explain. She talked about sex, we messaged spicy messages to each other, she wanted to try new things etc. And she was hooked on the idea of sex in a Jacuzzi, even suggested group sex.
 
Now a few years have passed since then, and things have calmed down a little. Still, her wish for sex is always there (compared to earlier year, "no, not in the mood" ). She is less embarrassed about sex, and admits her fantasy is a man bigger equipped than me ;-) I have no problem with this, and know I can satisfy her well as it is. 
Thing is, this gut feeling, this presence that she is not being honest with me is always there. I have even though her fantasy is talk to calm down me, to prove she is heterosexual.

Lately (last 1-2- years), she has been (overly) nice to me, always making sure I am happy and content. Still, we talk little, and she rarely initiates talk, as if she never has something bothering her on her mind. Of course all this seems well and fantastic, and I am not trying to problematize a non existing issue. But, I feel something is still a little weird in our relationship.
 
She acts more and more in ways that leaves me feeling she does not want me as a man, only as a partner. And I believe I am a good partner, caring, understanding, takes care of house, garden and our kids, we share many chores and responsibilities, so I think we have good "balance" and communication – more than many we know.

She still checks out women when we are out in public, secretly staring at these beautiful and often busty women. 
She also has a friend at work, married, about her age. This woman give me the same vibes, that is, a gut feeling sense she likes women. And her feminine, curvy looks, combined with her witty, tomboyish personality, goes perfectly with my wife's preferences. And I hear they talk a lot at work, leaving me the feeling that this is the reason for my wife's good mood.
 
Sometimes, they have home office, and she lives close to our house. They meet for coffee, and so far I can tell, it is only that, given the time she spends there. But what do I know for sure.
 
Earlier, when their friendship started, this woman sent my wife messages inviting her to, like take an evening walk with her (I see nothing weird about that). But my wife would not respond, nor tell me (I saw it coincidentally). I discussed this with her on a general basis later, and encouraged her to accept such invitations, encouraged to nurture friendships to get/keep friends (she has very few). So, I found it so weird she seeks this womans friendship, but seemed conscious about letting me in. Now she typically goes there with our kids to play with her's, have a coffee when I am not around. Sometimes we all meet as families, and I sense my wife admires this woman, as she is intelligent and witty.
 
I know, it is hard for anyone else to comment on my observations. Still, I hope to hear from anyone that has been thinking thoughts like me, and lived with this suspicion and gut feeling in their life. It is like poison… not the truth - but feeling I do not know the truth…
 
To me, many things seem to add up, if my suspicions turn out to be right. But mostly, I feel confused, thinking I have gotten too fixed finding clues to prove this.
 
I have asked her, she denies of course. Still, to me, her response indicated she have trouble with such a label (her parents were very conservative). She is not "a lesbian..".
 

 

Tue Sep 20 9:57 am  #2


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

As a Straight Woman I can tell you that I never check out women.  I check out other's women's:

manicures
haircuts
makeup
clothes
shoes
jewelry
cars
(and maybe I sneak a peak at their men)

But I never ever check them out.

Recently I met an female olympian who had an amazing, absolutely stunning, physique and yes, I can say her body rocked.  But I was looking at it not in a sexual way, but an oh my gosh I will never have a body that looks like that kind of way. On the other hand, I saw another male athlete running down the street who had an amazing body and I was looking at him with both admiration and with lust.

Straight women look at other women and compare.  They don't look at women and get turned on.  

Hope this helps.

As for your gut feelings, trust them.


"No matter how hard the journey may be, remember to be kind to yourself..."
 

Tue Sep 20 10:09 am  #3


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

Hi Steen,

You seem very observant in general, and self-aware about your relationship.  And also about the lack of concrete proof.  Just know that for most of us, a nagging suspicion that something was off was our first clue.  Never underestimate the human mind - it can sense things with seemingly no obvious clues whatsoever.  The brain is smarter than you give it credit for - even when you can't figure out why it feels something, it sees things that you can't comprehend.

That being said, it's difficult to make decisions based off of vague feelings.  It comes down to.... are you happy?  You say that she's got more interest in sex than she used to, and that she's nicer and happier in general now than she used to be.  For most people, that's a good thing.  It's my thought that since you suspect that her happiness and increased libido stems from outside the relationship, you can't see it as genuine to you, and it's therefore a false fulfillment.  Am I hitting the nail on that?

What would be your ideal outcome?  Are you okay with accepting the positive behaviors even if they're not stemming from her relationship with you?  If they aren't stemming from you, are you aware that if things go south with whatever the source of the behaviors are, they are likely to impact you negatively?  Have you discussed your wife's lack of connectivity to you with her?

You might not know what you want yet, or which part of this bothers you most.  But if she was found to be cheating with this other woman (even if "just" emotionally), how would you feel about that?

I wish you the best -

Kel


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

Tue Sep 20 10:16 am  #4


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

P.S. - Wendy's right.  The only women's bodies that I EVER look at are the same ones that might turn a man's head - truly beautiful or even slutty.  And it's more for admiration (for the beautiful ones - admiring her hair and trying to figure out how I might be able to make mine to something similar), or with incredulousness - HOW can she be wearing that in public - has she no decency???  Other than that, I'm only checking out her clothing, or nails, makeup, etc - as Wendy's said.  My body posture definitely doesn't change.  And if it's obvious that I'm staring at her, I'll probably make note of it to whomever I'm with - if that's appropriate.  "Did you see how beautiful that woman was???  Jeez, she could be a movie star!"  I'll often say something directly to the woman herself, if it's a compliment.  "I love that shirt/shoes/nail polish color!  Where did you get it?"  Or even "You have such beautiful eyes - do you get told that all the time?" (the answer is always yes.)

Straight women don't stare at other women with lust.  Even the women that other men do.  If we think Jennifer Aniston is beautiful, that's all we think.  It doesn't turn us on.  We may scrutinize to see what exactly it is that makes her so beautiful, but it's more because we want to steal her secret!

Kel


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

Tue Sep 20 11:03 am  #5


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

I agree with Kel, the human mind is incredible, and intuition can be a powerful thing.

But I also agree with her on, "are you happy?" Something that I discovered is that almost all people that are married for a long period of time (think 20 years), change. You are not married to the same person that you walked down the aisle with, and you are not the same either. So marriages, too, have to be reinvented. Could be that your wife is just going through a "sexual peak", as in the hormones in her body are kicking into gear so she's more sexual in general. This can be a cool time for you guys, as you discover new things about each other, and experience a different relationship with one another.

A word of caution (from experience) though. You mentioned her fantasy about being with a different man, and even her mentioning group sex. These are waters that must be traversed carefully. If you are sensing that she is interested in women, or other people, getting into sexual stuff with other people can open a door that might bring in stuff that you don't want in the long run. It can be titillating, and in the moment can be fun in a taboo/dangerous way, but there is an emotional side to it all that can be really tough. Sounds like you are already a little vulnerable (questioning her sexuality, noticing little actions, ect.), be careful.

 

 

Tue Sep 20 11:18 am  #6


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

Steen, 

You don't want to hear this..  but I see many similarities in your story to my own experience with my soon to be ex.  In fact, reading your post brought back quite a few painful memories for me. 

Again, I hate to say it.. but you should be worried.  
My wife would come home with a higher sex drive often after being with her "friends".  In fact she had sex with me much more often in the few months before she finally snapped and admitted she was a lesbian.  I think she was trying to convince me otherwise and keep me happy so that I wouldn't wonder about it. The more accurate description is that she would let me have sex with her more often.  But there was no passion from her, she would barely even give me a peck on the lips.  
She would try very hard to conceal her looks at other women.  She lied to me constantly about her friendship with her new work friend until i snooped on her and found a discussion on her IM's where she was gloating about how much she enjoyed the oral sex they had just had the prior evening.  She would constantly give me guilt trips about my fears about her friendship with this woman.  

For your sake i really hope I'm wrong about this.  But my gut tells me that your wife is a lesbian at the core, but not ready to come out.  My wife just turned 40 when she finally worked up the courage to admit this to me and change her lifestyle.  A big part of what kept her in the closet so long was her religious upbringing and beliefs.  Chances are your wife is not ready to accept the label of being a lesbian.  She doesn't want the world to see her that way.  She doesn't want her family or coworkers or friends to know her secret.  She will struggle with this for a while longer, but most likely she will eventually stop fighting it and accept it.  

I hope I'm wrong. 

If I were you, I would keep prodding her.  Tell her that it's ok if she is a lesbian.  Tell her that she owes you the truth.  Tell her that you would rather know now than in five years.  She owes you the truth!!!!


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

"Horribly, the only way through it..... is through it."
-CajunBelle
 

Tue Sep 20 11:31 am  #7


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

Sorry  but gut feelings on one's spouse trump what we can see and cant see..  we know our spouses like the back of our hands.
I agree with lostdad...mine had this sudden interest in sex like she was deciding if she still like being straight..this before my discard. 
I would be worried and snoop...so sorry.


 


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

Tue Sep 20 9:23 pm  #8


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

I don't mean to be the odd man out here but my ex showed very little interest in sex prior to her coming out.
I will say that if your gut is telling you something is not right then that is worth checking out.

 

Wed Sep 21 2:07 am  #9


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

As a straight & highly suspicious woman I say head straight to snooping software. You'll have your answer in no time.

Best wishes to you & I'm sorry you are going thru this.

 

Wed Sep 21 6:31 am  #10


Re: She is not "a lesbian"...

Hi everybody,
I am overwhelmed by your responses, and thanks for your kind words of compassion.
 
First, you all post relevant, well thought comments.
 
WendiT
All women I have known resembles the way of thinking and behavior you describe.
Thanks, I needed some input on this. I have a few times also noticed how women on TV often can turn her head, instant response, like a man does…. ;-)
 
A couple times she has discussed body features, like breasts etc. In an innocent manner, but still, my notion is that she enjoys the topic. Again, innocent, but gut feeling growing.
 
And this attraction thing, correlates with who she likes. So who is her "type", is the woman she will seek to communicate well with. And from what I have noticed, these women are rarely the very feminine, 110% seemingly hetero women.
 
And some of these women she likes , return her gaze. When this happens, I feel she forgets I am there, excitement takes over.
 
Kel
Thanks, for your response,
Yes, like in my response to WendiT, I am almost surprised myself of how much I have experienced and noticed, and questioned to myself.
 
So many details, and the more unsure I get, the more details I seek to collect, trying for that moment of absolute conviction. You ask if I feel happy. I would say yes, we have a good life.
But you hit the nail, and so very precisely.
 
I have thought the things you mention, and what I want most is truth.
 
I have told her how I feel, but I think, whatever I say, it will be a problem.
That is what scares me, since she act as in phase of strong denial, this appears to me as deeply rooted in her. I have told her I am open to hear how she feels, and we'll take it from there.
 
CES
I think you are right, I think she has experienced such a peak. And my view is that this stirred up desires she has put away for years.
 
Thanks, yes, for your word of caution. Agree, but I think of myself as matured as well. I am actually quite relaxed about the jealousy part, like if she would flirt openly with someone she liked, and told me. And the latter is the very difference. When this first appeared, she was very intense in her observations, like her body took control. Then after, I was really worried when she said she could not understand at all what I meant..
 
When she tells me this desire, I feel different about this than I would earlier in life. But, as mentioned, it sounds like she is trying to convince me..
 
So, the secrecy part has left me thinking about a lot, her strict upbringing, older relatives in her family, living their whole life "unmarried", her trip to visit a friend living in San Francisco many years back, her lack of female friends, how she never comments on a man being handsome etc..
 
Lostdad
" I think she was trying to convince me otherwise and keep me happy so that I wouldn't wonder about it. The more accurate description is that she would let me have sex with her more often.  But there was no passion from her, she would barely even give me a peck on the lips.  "
 
This is almost exactly how I feel. Feeling I am good at giving her pleasure and attention, I feel she enjoys sex. But, she meets my eyes significantly less than earlier years, when sex was more rare and less pleasure.
 
And yes, I think you can be much right. Just the term lesbian scares her. " She doesn't want the world to see her that way" Yes. Being gay was not an option in her home. Still, in retrospect I have questions regarding her parents true desires and happiness… Keeping up appearances was key. And my wife is not the kind of person to willingly go into the storm, fighting to rearranging her life, deal with possible embarrassment, guilt, focus on her person, maybe feeling she has hold me in a lie….
 
I have told her I am open to hear her desires, feelings etc. So many years together, too valuable to easily fear such desires and changes without trying to find "a good way"... This meaning, I would rather have her disclose this now, instead of later, of course, and rather now than in a situation where a possible romance with a woman is present and then may be the reason to leave the closet.
 
Rob,
I agree, I feel I do, and when she acts this way, I can sense it to my bone.
 
Laurence and whatasham24
I'm not sure how to snoop and check out more. Have tried some approaches, and she seems "clean".
She keeps her phone code and her imac login to herself ("because of the kids").
 
Any suggestions, valued from experience..?
  
Thanks again, all of you, I value it so very much. I will read them all again.
Any more thoughts, I am all ears.

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