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June 22, 2019 5:39 pm  #1


What's First? The Chicken or The Egg?

My ex h was a nasty person who was amoral and lacked a conscience.  This was apart from lying/denying his sexuality.   I sense the same from a lot of the other posters here.

Do you all think that denying their sexuality/staying in closet caused them to lash out? Or are they LGBT oriented people who happen to be con artists and/or personality-disordered?  They get more of our life by pretending to be straight...they have no shame about being gay.

I am guessing my ex h was the latter. I've had out  gay male work friends. It's been acceptable in my area for the last 30 yrs to be out of the closet. 

The ones who were married to women and had kids consistently told me of their sorrow of marrying an unsuspecting spouse. I never asked them if they felt this way or lead them into talking about it. It just came out. They were nice guys. 

 

Last edited by MJM017 (June 22, 2019 5:43 pm)

 

June 23, 2019 12:56 pm  #2


Re: What's First? The Chicken or The Egg?

I think you are going to run into a cross-section of LGBTQ individuals just like you do with straights. Some people are just horrible people and some people are decent enough but make poor choices. Sometimes it's the chicken and sometimes it's the egg. It's not always easy to tell which is which.

Whether they intended to be or not, those nice gay men were abusive to their wives through the lies, the wasted time, and the emotional damage they inflicted when they eventually left. They just feel the regret they ought to feel if they aren't completely amoral. Bitch cookie as Chump Lady might say. If they were disordered then the abuse is still there but they don't feel sorry for it and their regret is for themselves only, to put on a show, and to protect an image. I still feel compassion for the former but it's tempered by the suffering I know the straight spouse went through with them.

I also know there are mixed orientation couples who somehow make it work, some who are honest from the start, and some who choose to be celibate. Many are really good people. I still like the person who hurt me and think they are somewhere in the gray. It also still hurts. There was a consequence for both my feelings and their behavior. Friendship is likely off the table. I'm approaching civil but it's just sad all around.

Some people cause their own pain whatever their orientation. Sometimes people have pain caused for them. Character is what you decide to do with that.

 

June 24, 2019 11:05 am  #3


Re: What's First? The Chicken or The Egg?

W - Thanks for helping me to clarify things in my mind. I try to get a complete picture of the situation to be fair. It doesn't help me to 2nd guess why he hid the gay part.

The late h lacked character. It didn't matter if he was lgbt+ or straight. I would have divorced him regardless.

Thank you, again!!

 

     Thread Starter
 

July 1, 2019 7:22 am  #4


Re: What's First? The Chicken or The Egg?

Lovely Whirligig!  Such wise words!!!

“Some people cause their own pain whatever their orientation. Sometimes people have pain caused for them. Character is what you decide to do with that.”

Deciding not to let the pain of this situation bend me into something bitter and nasty is a challenge at times and I have failed and have to forgive myself for those times when the rage owned me.  Anger has been my challenge in this and even more so the anger at myself that turns to depression.  Forgiveness is tough, but I’m trying to feel compassion for myself first and heal and then maybe I will have the strength of character to be truly forgiving of my GIDXH.

Hugs to all as life is so messy and people are complicated.

 

July 9, 2019 1:05 pm  #5


Re: What's First? The Chicken or The Egg?

MJ,

This is something I've struggled with as well. My ex-husband echoed a lot of the characteristics yours did, as well as other people's in these threads. One comments he said during our divorce was that he did not believe he could live the lifestyle he wanted (be successful, be accepted in the community, etc.) as a gay man. This caused him to hide his authentic self and try to live the life of a straight individual. The problem, however, is that it slowly ate away at him. His unhappiness caused him to lash out and try to control/isolate me in the process until he could no longer fake it anymore. 

It has now been 2 years since he came out and our divorce, and I now feel sadness for him in the sense that something happened in his life that prevented him from thinking that he could live a complete and successful life as a gay man (it has taken a long time to get to this mindset). We are young (we both were under 30 when he came out), so it saddens me that younger people still feel as though they won't be accepted for who they are. Don't get me wrong, I'm angered at the fact that he felt as though it was okay to manipulate and betray me in the process, but I feel as though there are a lot of layers here. 

This is a club that no one wants to join, but it's wonderful having support. It's difficult to explain to people who have not walked this walk. Much love to you all! 

 

July 9, 2019 6:38 pm  #6


Re: What's First? The Chicken or The Egg?

Some people who made a conscious decision to stay in the closet and use us play the homophobia/transphobia card to excuse their own bad behavior.   As someone on this forum said recently, they lived in most gay friendly city in the country, so there was really no impediment to her husband's coming out.  My ex and I work at a university that has spent the past two years trumpeting its "trans-friendly" culture, so he would have no reason to expect or fear retribution, and there are policies in place to protect against such behavior, but my ex's pride is hurt by how obviously he is not a woman, so he elected to stay in the closet.   Too bad the rest of us women who fail to meet an ideal do not have the choice of whether we wish, on any particular day, to avoid going out into the world and facing ridicule or devaluing.

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (July 10, 2019 9:33 am)

 

July 9, 2019 7:51 pm  #7


Re: What's First? The Chicken or The Egg?

Second Act, welcome, and I like your user name!  Yes, you said what I feel so eloquently. There are a lot of layers. I have to work through my pain on one end and acknowledge the reasons behind his behavior. However, it's never, ever condoned or a pass for excusing abuse. It's necessary for me to acknowledge all layers to move on and heal.

OOHC, I wish late GIDXH simply came out, too.  I didn't deserve to be a whipping post for his family's and society's lack of acceptance of his orientation.  I and no one deserve to be used as a front for this deception.  I am blessed that he passed away so soon after the divorce. I realize it doesn't sound polite or in good character. He would still be hounding and bothering me to be together, try counseling, spewing anger at me for refusing, etc. It would have been me dropping dead from extreme stress before he even had his health crisis.




 

Last edited by MJM017 (July 9, 2019 7:53 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

July 9, 2019 7:59 pm  #8


Re: What's First? The Chicken or The Egg?

MJM,
 The point I was trying--but clearly failing--to make is that my ex's actions are not to be explained by "society's lack of acceptance."  They are to be explained by his pride (he doesn't want to be anything less than a foxy woman) and by his privilege (he doesn't want to lose the unearned dividend of his maleness). 

 

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