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February 26, 2019 6:38 pm  #1


Sex after disclosure of TGT?

I got into another argument last night with my husband.  I guess I would call it a difficult discussion, but he calls them arguments and keeps asking me why we can't have nice days together anymore.  Apparently it is my fault that we are struggling, and he can't understand why I can't just move past everything since he:

1. hasn't cheated on me (according to him, and I haven't found proof otherwise yet)
2. still identifies as bi and states that he only likes the idea of being with men sexually, not emotionally (I call bullshit here, and frankly it seems like an even bigger red flag to me because he seems to think this somehow mitigates the fact that he wants to screw other men - also that this is somehow proof that our marriage can succeed and that I am enough)
3. Has said that he is happy being with only me for the rest of his life (even though he decided to announce he was bi to me after being together for 17 years...because why?  Am I supposed to believe it was because he felt so happy and fulfilled in our relationship that he wanted to let me in on that secret, and not because he was trying to tell me that there was something missing in his life?)

We are so uncomfortable around each other.  It's insane, when we wake up in the morning and go our separate ways we both seem to feel a longing to be together, I get lots of sweet messages from him throughout the day - and being concerned about how he is holding up under all of this pressure, I also send him a message or two wishing him a good day, etc.  Then, as soon as we are in the same space together and must face each other in person, the atmosphere is immediately crushing.  I find myself unable to make a lot of eye contact with him for fear that I will burst out crying.  I am civil but struggle to be very engaging, it all just feels so false.  He sits there expecting me to do all the work to make a connection - something I realize now was always the case, although I was blind to it.  Our relationship "thrived" because I dragged him along cheerily and made excuses for his distant behavior.  Now that I no longer have the ability to feel much joy myself, let alone create it for someone else, we are floundering. 

We met up after work to grab dinner last night.  He had to go out of town today (causing dread on my part, as it is hard to trust him now and the "what ifs" are hell to ignore) and he wanted us to have a nice night together.  We got to the restaurant, ordered a few drinks, then proceeded to sit mostly in silence, although we could both talk comfortably with others there.  He kept asking me what was wrong with me, why was I so sad, etc.  I kept thinking, "I'm acting like a normal person, I'm not making a scene, HE KNOWS DAMNED WELL WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME!  Why is he harassing me about this in public?"  Granted, I wasn't all smiles and bursting with happy energy, but how the fuck can I be?  It wasn't like he was either.  Apparently it is my job to drive all conversation.  We finally gave up on dinner and just went home and I finally answered his questions about "what was wrong with me."  Basically, that I still don't know whether or not it is healthy or wise for us to continue our marriage.  That I still have trust issues with him and that he isn't really doing anything to help address that or answer any questions for himself.  He refuses to talk with anyone, to seek a professional or even join an online support group to try to discover more about what all this means to him.  I think pretending everything is ok would be harmful to us both, and it is simply completely illogical to expect that to be a solution.  Typing that out now, I guess it isn't illogical to him, because that is what he has been doing his whole life - pretending.  I don't find that fulfilling, and I want no part in it.  I pointed out that his solution to everything seems to hinge on me acting like nothing is happening or has changed in our relationship, with the added responsibility of being sure to act joyful at all times to make him feel at ease.  It's madness!  

I again suggested that I thought it would be best for us to have separate bedrooms (i.e. halt our sex life) while we process everything that is happening.  He simply cannot accept this.  I realize that I do not need his permission, but I do worry that withdrawing from him physically will cause him to completely fall apart and potentially harm himself.  It is the ultimate rejection in his eyes.  I tell myself that I am used to feeling little to no connection when we have sex anyways, so what the hell?  But this isn't sustainable either, and if it isn't fulfilling for either one (or both) of us, then there is a problem. 

I know from reading others' posts here that many of us in the straight spouse club had partners that had withheld or limited sexual contact during our relationships.  My husband is hyper-sexual, and has always wanted a lot of sex, but I will say that even though it has been frequent, I have never truly felt desired or like much more than a prop.  This is strange to me, because he is largely the instigator, so all these years I chalked it up to something being wrong with me, even though I didn't have this feeling of "there must be something wrong with me" with my previous sexual partners.  Are there any others here who can relate?  Did your spouses still want to continue your sexual relationships after disclosure of TGT?  I feel stronger than I did when all of this started, but I worry that maybe I am just disconnecting, which isn't really progress...

Last edited by FML (March 1, 2019 2:26 pm)

 

February 26, 2019 7:36 pm  #2


Re: Sex after disclosure of TGT?

I am uncomfortable “revealing all” in a public forum so do not want to be too personal about me! However, based on my own experience, I feel that in this matter, you must listen to your gut about what feels emotionally safe to you.  You can tell him with words that you care about him and have always loved him, and that it  is hard for you also not to be physically intimate.  However, continue to explain that you feel too emotionally confused and need to keep yourself feeling safe.  That the physical intimacy causes emotional pain right now.

This is absolutely OK!  Yiu know this as you said, but you are worrying about his feelings.  We cannot help but be worried about the feelings of those we love and have loved for so long.

Think about this though:

The idea of consent is even in marriage.  Both partners must feel and say yes.  It is always o k for you to have boundaries.  If you had a habit of withholding in a happy marriage, that would be different, but this is an unusual time..  Physical intimacy bonds us more emotionally, and you need emotional space right now, to gain clarity.

Also, suppose you were pregnant or newly postpartum.  Suppose sex created physical pain, or that the unborn baby’s doctor said it was best to avoid sex for a few weeks so the baby did not go into preterm labor.  What if your husband was sad then about sex, but you just felt worried about it because of the possibility of harm to the baby.  This would be a valid reason to avoid sex.  Physical pain.  Or emotional worry. 

You know all this of course.  He has introduced this confusion into your life.  He wants reassurance.  He is not taking responsibility for his own confusion and somehow hopes your consistency will make him feel less confused. 

You have a lot to sort out.  Not being intimate for a while does not necessarily mean “never.” It  might.  But it might not.  it is ok to need space.  And it is right for him to own his own confusion, not throw it onto you.  If he loves you he will give you this space.

 

February 26, 2019 8:40 pm  #3


Re: Sex after disclosure of TGT?

FML

I could’ve wrote word by word what you just said except for our sex. Like me, you worry too much about what’s best for him. The fact that you are writing about this here means you really don’t want to have sex with him right now. That should be a good enough reason. You are not in a good place emotionally to be intimate with him. You worry about his emotions but he doesn’t care about yours? I think you can just share that you’re digesting things and until you do, you don’t want to be intimate. it doesn’t have to be forever. Right now, you can’t and he should understand it.

 

February 27, 2019 7:22 am  #4


Re: Sex after disclosure of TGT?

Great post. I haven’t been intimate with my wife since discovery on January 6th. Not a long time but it weighs on my mind. And she wasn’t overly sexual with me over the last three years anyway, two of which she was having an affair, so I am used to dry spells.  I really don’t want to be sexual with HER because I don’t want to be helpful in any way or be vulnerable at all. I don’t want her to give me pleasure and feel like she is helping me in any way.  I simply want nothing from her right now. I’m afraid if that wall I’ve built up cracks in any way, she will see a window and take advantage of it. I’m not sure if she’s getting it elsewhere or not. I don’t ask but I don’t assume she’s honest with me anymore. They are master manipulators after all. So I guess it’s solo me for now.  I do want to commend you on going out for drinks together. I’d would certainly take the night out from the kids but we’d sit at separate tables. To each their own, and I recognize mileage varies for everyone, just sharing my perspective. I’m jealous of some folks who are able to have a good relationship in light of TGT and/or affairs, I’m not there yet...at all.

Last edited by Brokenhearted (February 27, 2019 7:23 am)

 

February 27, 2019 8:31 am  #5


Re: Sex after disclosure of TGT?

   Actually, Brokenhearted, I'm really glad you wrote in, and gave your perspective, and I admire you, that you can be so clear-eyed about the dangers of sex with your wife, and so definite about setting that self-protective boundary on not wanting "to be helpful in any way or vulnerable at all," so you won't be in a position that she can "take advantage."  You recognize that after discovery it is now inappropriate for "her to give [you] pleasure, and feel like she is helping [you] in any way."  These are really important insights and lessons for others, because whether our spouses consciously realize what they are doing or not, the dynamic many of us have established with our closeted or in-denial spouses is unhealthy for us, and inherently manipulative. 

  FML, your husband, I suspect, wants to use sex with you to help him deny to himself that he is gay, and perhaps to re-establish the bond and re-secure you in the relationship.  For you to decide you no longer want to have sex with him because you believe he is gay is no doubt causing him great mental anguish and conflict, because it threatens the wall, the coping strategy, he's built up against this self-knowledge.  He appears to be a classic example of a person in an approach-avoidance conflict: he moved to express his true sexuality, and then he moved away from doing so.
     That he would exert pressure on you, expect you to behave in ways that allow him to return to his coping mechanism and continue to deny what at some level he knows--and longs for--but cannot admit, is unfair.  (Sean has spoken eloquently and repeatedly about the dodge of "I'm straight emotionally and gay sexually.") 
    From your husband's perspective, this strategy worked for him before he said what he did.  And make no mistake: whether he was honest with himself about it, whether he was even aware of it, you were part of a strategy.  Now that he is experiencing the effect of his telling you what he did, he wants very much for you to deny what you now know, and go back to that state of ignorance and that set of behaviors--that role he put you in of "thing that proves I am not gay"--and is pressuring you to do so out of love for him, because he doesn't have another strategy and he's panicked.  
   

  

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (February 27, 2019 8:38 am)

 

March 1, 2019 4:49 pm  #6


Re: Sex after disclosure of TGT?

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences, I really appreciate it!  

OnMyOwnTwoFeet - Thank you for posts and for encouraging me to empower myself to take care of my own needs.  You make very good points.  Initially, I was feeling forced to continue our sex life so that he would not feel rejected even though it was emotionally confusing and painful for me.  He fell apart so completely after making his disclosure, even threatening to kill himself, that I felt forced to push back my own feelings to try to help him. I know this is a tool in the narcissist's playbook, but I felt the threat was genuine and didn't know what else to do.  While I immediately expressed a need to step back from our sex life, he could not accept this and I acquiesced...why, I'm not entirely sure.  Largely, it was because he seemed to need to continue this part of our relationship so desperately, but it was also to throw myself into the fire so to speak, to see how I felt about our sexual relationship in light of his new revelations.  I was numb and confused, unsure of how to manage from one minute to the next.  If I am honest with myself, I guess sex feels the same as it did before I knew he had an attraction to men, empty and emotionally distant - the difference being that I now KNOW it is not just in my head, that it isn't my fault, and that this will never change.  Even though it has only been a couple of months since discovery, my issue now is more that I feel absolutely nothing for him sexually and I am just going through the motions.  This bothers me a lot and I don't want to accept that this is what sex will look like for me for the rest of my life.  Sex should not be a burden.  I don't think it is fair to either one of us.  I think I am at a point where I am either completely shutting down emotionally, or perhaps it is more that I resent being expected to meet his needs when he has shown an alarmingly unacceptable interest in my well-being and happiness within this relationship all these years.  

Although this may seem hard to believe, I can relate to being worried about sharing so much on a public site.  I struggle with that sometimes too, but obviously I decided to let that worry go for the most part, as my need for help and information eventually overruled my fear.  Perhaps I am foolish, but I also hope that some of these posts and the responses they receive might help others in similar situations, even if it is only to affirm that they are not alone.  There is so much to unpack when TGT emerges in our relationships, to say it is confusing and that it shakes the very foundations of our lives is an understatement.  

I have read several of your posts and many have really resonated with me, particularly the following statement from another thread:

OnMyOwnTwoFeet wrote:

I also said, “I want you to really understand that for me, the sexuality is nothing, and yet it is everything.” I mean, I do not judge him for his sexuality and I am not troubled by the idea of him being bisexual as a marriage partner, although I do need monogamy, and I need to feel like I am enough for him. Our marriage has been troubled though, and what bothers me is how he treated me so badly, so much contempt and criticism and withdrawal and blaming, and I think that, for him, this came from him not being honest because of how much he was guarding his secret. He felt so much agitation, so much resentment, toward me, and took it out on me. Discovering the hidden sexuality was then just complete and utter rejection, and a sense of being betrayed and deceived, discarded, treated with contempt. It is the deceit and betrayal and trust-shattering and contempt and criticisms—those are the things that are hard for me. And how it is all about his inner turmoil. His inner turmoil has now taken over my ability to even function. So the sexuality is not the pain—but to me it seems to the be the source of how he has treated me.

This is exactly how I am a feeling.  This has also been the dynamic within my marriage, and I could never understand where all the hostility towards me came from until now.  I knew he was depressed, and although I spent almost 20 years with him trying to understand why, he never really allowed me in.  I allowed my empathy and love for him to blind me to the fact that he never cared enough about me to want to give anything meaningful back to me.  I feel so incredibly foolish, but I know the blame truly lies with him.  It makes me sad that he made so many choices that have impacted us both so negatively. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 1, 2019 4:56 pm  #7


Re: Sex after disclosure of TGT?

Thank you, Mimi.  You are right, the fact that I am posting here does mean that I don't want to have sex with him right now.  It's funny that I could overlook something so simple when it is staring me in the face.  I am overthinking everything and need to make room for taking care of my needs as well. 

     Thread Starter
 

March 1, 2019 5:50 pm  #8


Re: Sex after disclosure of TGT?

Thanks for sharing, Brokenhearted.  I share OutofHisCloset's admiration that you have been able to firmly establish boundaries for yourself to protect yourself from further hurt as much as you can.  I think you are very wise and I truly hope that you are able to find some peace and comfort. 

I think it is probably a bit easier for me to continue to attempt to have a night out with my husband at the moment, as I haven't yet discovered any infidelities on my husband's part.  I'm not sure we are enjoying each other's company much though, it feels like we are just trying and failing to cling to some sense of normalcy when everything else has been turned on its head.  TGT is hard, as he has hidden his true self from me for 17 years and has projected all of his unhappiness and confusion onto me all of these years.  His strong interest in continuing our sex life is very confusing to me.  While I certainly have a lot of anxiety and am at times consumed by trying to figure out what else he has hidden from me (there are certainly some very questionable incidents to worry about), I don't have any proof to confirm my fears.  I can say that I share knowing what it feels like to no longer be able to trust what my partner tells me.  This must sound ridiculous, and I in no way mean to sound insensitive to the profound and genuine pain you and many others feel at the betrayal of finding out your significant others have had affairs/encounters with others, but I sometimes wish I did have proof he had stepped outside of our marriage, because it would make a path forward clearer to me.  That being said, I also understand that if I was on the other side and did have proof, I would laugh at that suggestion and be thankful I found out before that betrayal happened and my health was put at risk.  I find myself still feeling all of those fears and wondering "what if" regardless of the lack of concrete proof, simply because my trust in him and what I thought I knew about my life has been shattered.  

I also hope that I can salvage something meaningful from the parts of our life that we shared, but I'm not sure if that will be possible or not.  Even though he has hurt me profoundly, I want him to find happiness in life.  I want to find happiness for myself as well. Whether or not we can do that together?  I'm not so sure.

     Thread Starter
 

March 1, 2019 5:57 pm  #9


Re: Sex after disclosure of TGT?

OutofHisCloset - your posts continue to be very helpful to me.  I am amazed at your wisdom and I thank you for taking the time to share your experiences and hard won knowledge with others here.  You seem to really be able to cut through the bullshit, which I still find myself struggling with.  I agree with your assessment that my husband is most likely using sex with me to help him deny to himself that he is gay.  That is what my gut is telling me, and I'm trying to listen to my intuition more.  His actions are showing me that he is still more interested in meeting his own needs rather than meeting mine.  It helps to hear from others who are further along in this journey.

     Thread Starter
 

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