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November 19, 2018 10:55 am  #1


To stay or not to stay...

Hello!

I’m new here. I just posted my story under “Our Stories.”

I’m sure you guys can relate to the mental gymnastics that we put ourselves through, trying to understand our spouses.  Do we stay or leave or if we stay, how can we make it work? 

My husband recently opened up to me about having male sexual encounters prior to us meeting. He shared his desire to cross dress. I agreed to go along with the cross dressing if it was at home after kids went to bed. Well, a few weeks out and he’s already pushing those boundaries. He claims he’s straight because he says he’s never had feelings for men. He started a Twitter account where he documents his CD and exchanges pics and vids with other men, etc. I could go on.

My question for you guys is this. Since my husband has not physically cheated on me, am I obligated to stay in this relationship? I want to follow God’s model for marriage.  I said ‘til death do us part.  Usually that means unless they’re unfaithful. At present, he is being open and honest and forthcoming about all the things he is doing.  He claims to love me and is not asking to go out and meet with guys for encounters right now. 

Our children are 5years and 15mos old. I’m staying home with them these days. I feel stuck here right now. 

I’m taking it one day at a time and trying to make things work for now.  I just read so many of your stories where some of you spent years trying to make it work and adapting and settling for less than ideal before finally breaking free and having the life you really want and then regretting all the time you spent trying to make the MOM work. 

Thanks for listening.

 

November 19, 2018 5:54 pm  #2


Re: To stay or not to stay...

Shocked,
I'm very sorry that you have to be here and hate the situation that you're in. Unfortunately your husband has shown a solid interest in sex with other men and had sex with them on a regular basis in the past and plans to in the future..(and perhaps is indulging currently as well). There really is no excuse for this for a man who claims to be straight. When a man has sex with other men, he is not straight. Period. He is gay or bi. And the only thing I can say about bisexuality is I believe it exists in the minds of the ones who are on the down hill journey to being full blown gay. Add the fact that he's cross dressing and pushing every boundary possible only makes your situatuon more dire, and according to what l I've read on this subject, it only gets worse.  
It's not what you signed up for. Prepare yourself and your children for an eventual exit plan. This may be hard to hear now and I know you'll rationize what a good man/father etc he's been but your going to see his true colors gradually emerge as he delves deeper into his 'woman hood'.
I wish you all the best and please know you have lots of support.


Life is like phases of the moon.... We really only see it when it's beautiful, full and in our face. 
 

November 19, 2018 7:32 pm  #3


Re: To stay or not to stay...

In your post you said "I knew none of this before and he said, it’s because I never asked. "

Why should you have thought to ask that sort of a "by the way, have you ever..." kind of question? That's a convenient excuse on his part but it also means that you did not have full knowledge of what you were agreeing to. As far as I'm concerned that null and voids everything. I believe the expectation is that you enter a union with all honesty. He did not. He withheld critical information from you. I would also point out that he suggested adding a third person, so to me he's already cheating in thought. His CD twitter account is also a form of cheating. It's a form of emotional intimacy that is supposed to be reserved for you.

We all have our own definitions of commitment and fidelity. You are allowed to decide what yours are and where exactly that 'line in the sand' gets drawn. whatever you choose, be kind to yourself.


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

November 19, 2018 9:17 pm  #4


Re: To stay or not to stay...

You wrote "I want to follow God’s model for marriage."  I do not think that most Christian denominations would consider the marriage that your husband wants yours change to as "God's model for marriage." Your husband is not trying to avoid temptation but to seek it out. He is trying to pull you away from what you believe is Godly and lead you into temptation.

Since you want "to follow God's model for marriage" I suggest that you dig deep into your faith and firmly anchor yourself. Your husband concealed information about himself which had you known it would caused you to not marry him. It was not your responsibility to play detective and pry the truth out of him.

If you decide that where he is headed is not where you want to go, quietly start planning your exit.
 


Try Gardening. It'll keep you grounded.
 

November 19, 2018 10:26 pm  #5


Re: To stay or not to stay...

Shockedmama,

It is a shock..As a straight guy i can at least reinforce to you that it is not normal. Your husband doesn't seem to care.  I can't imagine what is going through his mind but from his actions its clearly not you.  The hurt and anxiety and worry you feel is real.. as he says he still cares for you but does this.. its really a subtle form of abuse. 

I offer the answer to your title...this is not us leaving them..this is them rejecting us.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

November 20, 2018 7:59 am  #6


Re: To stay or not to stay...

Give a tranny an inch, and they'll take a mile.

In my experience with my former cross-dressing autogynephile boyfriend, all he did was push the boundaries of what was expected and normal.   eg.  he couldn't just cross-dress on the road or alone. He always wanted to do it at home and with me in the bedroom. If we went out and he was in drag, he would get upset if I called him my boyfriend. When I hit peaktrans and started to stand up to him about any of it, we fought like crazy and continued to up until his death last month.

What I learned from the two years of putting up with cross-dressing fantasies and ugliness when he didn't get his way is you can't let them push you around. Had I known when we started dating, I never would have gone out with him in the first place. I tried for 2 years to make it work by validating him and loving him, but all he did was bully me so he could get what he wanted, namely to get to cross-dress all the time and call himself a woman.

You are not obligated to stay. You don't have to put up with it. You are important and if he loved and truly cared about you and his family, he wouldn't be treating you like that. Everything would not be about him and his fetish (cause it is a fetish. They just don't like it being called that.)

Be strong, sister. We're here for you.

 

November 20, 2018 8:52 am  #7


Re: To stay or not to stay...

Hi Shocked.  I'm so sorry you find yourself here.

You raise the issue of God's model for marriage.  I'm way out of my element on that question, because I think we have to examine instead YOUR model for marriage, because that's the contract you entered into when you said your vows.  Your husband took the same vows before God that you did.  Since we can't know God's will, I'd suggest maybe God wants your husband to honor his vows, and if he can't, you shouldn't be unilaterally bound.  

Many people who come on this forum start with a narrative similar to yours: our husbands are "bisexual" and haven't cheated but have acknowledged that they might be interested in trying sex with other men.  Your husband may be being completely honest with you, but you should prepare yourself, emotionally, for the possibility that he has already cheated on you and he is calling himself "bi" to avoid the moral taint of being gay and having scammed you into marriage.

 

November 20, 2018 2:05 pm  #8


Re: To stay or not to stay...

Abby wrote:

You wrote "I want to follow God’s model for marriage."  I do not think that most Christian denominations would consider the marriage that your husband wants yours change to as "God's model for marriage." Your husband is not trying to avoid temptation but to seek it out. He is trying to pull you away from what you believe is Godly and lead you into temptation.

Since you want "to follow God's model for marriage" I suggest that you dig deep into your faith and firmly anchor yourself. Your husband concealed information about himself which had you known it would caused you to not marry him. It was not your responsibility to play detective and pry the truth out of him.

If you decide that where he is headed is not where you want to go, quietly start planning your exit.
 

I think this is really fantastic advice. 

If you are seeking justification for divorce from a religious perspective I can offer the follow based on my studies:  (These are purely personal beliefs and I'm not a Pastor or religious leader.   I only offer them because the original post asked these questions and brough them up)
From a Biblical perspective marriage is a covenant made spiritually that should not be broken with the exception of two reasons.  First is normally thought of as cheating, but technically the wording is "sexual immorality" (Mat 5:31-32).  Second is abandonment by an unbelieving spouse (1 Cor 7:15).   You are welcome to interpret what you feel is sexual immorality.  If your spouses actions and beliefs constitute sexual immorality, even if you have no proof he's physically acted on it, then perhaps you have adequate basis for divorce.  I'll add that there are mentions in the Bible that those who have thoughts and desires of sin have already sinned (lust for example).  

There is also the concept of annulment in the Catholic church.  I'm not Catholic, but I think this train of thought has some validity.  Catholics consider Marriage a "sacrament", other religions call it a covenant.  It's basically a spiritual contract.  In legal terms, a contract is invalid if one of the two parties provides a fraudulent representation of the terms and understandings of that contract.  If you enter into a contract to buy a new Ferrari and the seller delivers a used Kia, clearly that contract will be nullified (annulled).   Would it not be similar to think that if you expected to marry a heterosexual man (which is a pretty important detail) and you wound up with a homosexual transvestite man, perhaps you shouldn't be held to the contract?  

The flip side of this discussion is that I don't think God intended our lives here on earth to be "fair" as we understand that term.  Many of us are dealt challenges in life and we can't expect God to make allowances to mitigate those circumstances.  God expects us to follow Him through our struggles and be the best followers and representatives of Him that we can be.  The story of Job talks about a righteous man who's family and all belongings were taken from him due to no fault of his own.  Through it all he remained faithful to God and in the end was rewarded greatly.  The point is that life on this earth is not always fair.  We are all given challenges that we overcome or survive and our job isn't always to go around these things, but rather to remain faithful to God in the midst of it all.  If your understanding or interpretation of your religious beliefs says that marriage should remain intact unless he cheats on you, then you should remain in the marriage and remain faithful to God through the trials.  

Only you can make this decision.  I'm glad we can all have an open conversation about this topic, but in the end you have to decide for yourself what you feel is right in your heart and between you and your God. 

It's NEVER an easy decision.  I wish you the best in this challenge. 


*I can't say enough about how mature and responsible this forum has been on the topic of religion.  I've never once.. not a single time. seen anyone say or do anything offensive in regards to religion beliefs.  We all have our own beliefs.  We all have a right to share our thoughts and personal opinions.  We never force them on anyone else or openly criticize differing beliefs.  We always remember that the topic is a powderkeg and can easily offend people.   I'm glad we have the maturity to have these dicussions. 


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 

November 20, 2018 2:26 pm  #9


Re: To stay or not to stay...

Wow, Guys! I really appreciate the thoughtful responses from each of you.  This is tough stuff and I know you have all lived it or are living it.

Scrupulous,
I totally agree with you that my husband is bisexual.  He had sex with men.  He won’t convince me otherwise.  One of my biggest fears/saddest concerns is that, like you said, he’s on his way to full blown gay.  I read the phrase on this site- Bi now, Gay Later.  That’s very clever and it made me chuckle : ) but it’s not funny if it happens to you.

Daryl,
You’re right!  When he made the comment that I never asked, I thought it was very convenient for him.  No, I never asked because I never thought in a thousand years that he’d say, “Why yes, I have had sex with men...” I do feel it was very deceptive. If I’d known, I never would’ve said I do. I’m sure he knew that.

Abby,
I really like what you have to say about him leading me away from God and into temptation.  He is not a Christian and I knew it and I still married him. That was my first mistake. I feel like I’ve been compromising my beliefs all along.
One thing I keep coming back to is the example I’m setting for our 5yr old.  I feel like if I stay in this marriage and he gradually dresses more and more like a woman here at home, I’m showing my son I agree with it. I take that very seriously.  I think if I move out, some day my children will see that I stood on principle. I do want to anchor myself in my faith.  I feel guilty for what I’ve compromised on already.

Rob,
Thank you for saying it’s not normal.  The way my husband talks about it and twists it and tries to reason it out or rationalize it can seem so confusing to me.

No more lies,
You have quite a story.  Your time with that guy must’ve been just awful.  I hope that since his passing, you can finally get some closure.  I really appreciate your thoughts about the CD.  This is all new to me.  I never knew anyone else who did it, so I’m very grateful for your insight.

Walk by myself,
You bring up a very thought-provoking point.  How do I know he hasn’t cheated in this marriage. (Scrupulous brought this up, too.)  He wasn’t honest with me for 9 years. When he did share things, how do I know he shared everything?  One day a couple of years ago, he couldn’t reach me on the phone for 3-4hrs because I was at the pool. He came flying in the door, accused me of cheating and, for two days, treated me like I had. Didn’t eat meals with me, didn’t talk.  It was a huge deal! I was at the pool and forgot my phone at home. Hmmm...wonder if he cheated...

Thanks again, Guys.  So glad to have all of you to share thoughts with!

     Thread Starter
 

November 20, 2018 4:11 pm  #10


Re: To stay or not to stay...

As someone who found some proof that my husband was gay about 14 years ago and stayed, burying the truth and my feelings deep down "for my kids" I can tell you that the time to leave is now. If your kids are only 5 and 15 months, they will adjust pretty quickly and you are still young enough to go out and find a partner who is true to you and wants to be with you. 

I wish from the depths of my soul that I had left back then. I found an account on a male hookup sight. He explained it away, said he used to think he was gay (due to some abuse as a kid) but realized he wasn't, blah, blah, blah. Now my kids are teenagers and uprooting our family is going to be SO much worse than it would have been when they were little. Also, I was 36 then and now I'm 50. It's too late for me to find someone new. I'm looking at spending the rest of my life alone. 

Please, do yourself a favor and really think long and hard if this is something you can live with forever. *hugs*

 

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