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October 5, 2018 10:36 pm  #21


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

Penny,

I just went back to read my story again.  I guess I can add some about those 4.5 years.  Basically, he knew that I knew.  He just became more and more passive aggressive.  Everything became about him.  He just didn’t care about me period.  I was isolated and losing my mind.  I tried to detach and live my own life. I even took a month vacation, since he couldn’t travel anymore with his drug addiction.  I went to Europe alone to see my mothers birthplace.   He chose that time to go off anti depressants, I ended up almost nightly on the phone with him for an hour , him crying, begging me to come home.  There was another trip With my family and he horrifically killed my little Pomeranian out of spite.

Then told me all about it when I came home.  Another time I had a kidney stone and he let me Lay on the floor begging to go to the hospital for over 6 hours.  I was too afraid of him and in too much pain to realize that he was just hoping I would die.  Bottom line, I was living with a narcisctic sociopath.  And it all got worse and worse.   Detachment didn’t work.  And he knew the game was up.   I’m not saying that all GID are as nuts as him.   But I have heard other stories of drugs alcohol (driven by their own self loathing I’m sure ).  Bottom line, it was all just total insanity.   I don’t live in that world anymore (but it will never be gone either).  Life is just too short and precious to waste it being miserable.  You sound like you’re on the right track.  I thought I was too when I threw him out at 18 years.   Just saying be careful, believe me I KNOW how easy it is to fall back in denial, fall back into false hope when you’ve invested your life into someone.

I do know that I am sitting here happy. Watching baseball with my loving new husband.  No resentments or seething anger.  Just love, happiness, contentment, security, safety, excitement about our life and things to look forward to in the future.  None of which I had for a very long time.

 

October 6, 2018 12:50 am  #22


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

Wow Damaged. I went and read your story and thought - “this is a strong woman I could be friends with”. And you’ve been diagnosed with MS which is a huge challenge mentally and physically. I’m so glad you finally got to meet someone who loves you and who you are happy with. You fucking deserve it after that arsehole - being GID seems the least of his bloody worries. Fucking Prick!!! Made me angry reading about how so many people haven’t had your back. And yet here you are, taking the time to talk to someone on the other side of the world in spite of all you’ve been through. Thank you.

As for my husband? Well, he appears to be in a much friendlier mood and he is being far too attentive for my liking. I feel uncomfortable, discombobulated and sad. It was much easier when he was being an arse and then I could fly under the radar. No doubt he is prepping me for a Sunday morning visit to get his handjob. Sorry about the TMI but I need to share.

I am heading off on a trip with my mum overseas in a couple of weeks so I want to hang in there until after I get back. There is never a good time but I want to get some things sorted. Or am I delaying the inevitable? I don’t know. I also don’t want my certainty about the rightness of my decision to fade either. Which is why in a weird way I’m relieved to see that he is continuing to look at gay porn because it keeps me determined.

Thank you damaged.

Last edited by PennyD (October 6, 2018 12:51 am)

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October 6, 2018 10:13 am  #23


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

Your welcome Penny,

Everyone’s journey is different.  At the 18 year mark I still had my Mother.  I didn’t share a lot with her (was still showing the world the perfect marriage lie).  But I had told her my suspicions and she believed it, begged me to leave him.  She was devastated when I took him back and said “you’re not ready, you haven’t suffered enough, you must like living in pain, what are you afraid of”.  She died unexpectantly a year later.  It’s a process, yes, you are just avoiding the inevitable.

Maybe this trip will be good for you.  I “celebrated” my 22 wedding anniversary alone on a transatlantic cruise to Southampton (then a tour in Europe that I was talking about above). My tablemates were all married Brits.  They knew something was not right with my marriage but didn’t push (even the night I ran out crying when the piano player played “our song”).   Other then one of the men who said, “If you were my wife I wouldn’t let you be traveling alone” .  It was a nice compliment, as despite being slightly overweight I still looked damn good!  That trip was probably the big push I needed, it made me realize that I could do it alone. That life was passing me by.  It still took me another 4 months and the kidney stone incident to say ENOUGH!

I guess I’m just trying to warn you, it’s like cat and mouse.  Just like you have your ups and downs about staying in the marriage, he has his delusions etc.  when I left for my trip, in my declaration of independence.  My XH was all ya, go ahead, have a great time.  Then no phone contact for 15 days and sporadic internet, he lost his mind.  I got off the ship and spent my first night in London on the phone for HOURS with him begging me to fly home.   I don’t know what he was going through, or what he was doing.  My thought is that he wanted his babysitter back, like I say my XH does not want to be gay.  But it’s nit my problem anymore.  Like everyone tells you, start thinking about YOU! What you need and want to be happy.  The older we get, the faster life passes us by.

 

October 6, 2018 11:53 am  #24


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

Penny,

I forgot to mention (I’ve been reading your exchanges with Sean , I wish I had been reading his stuff when I was still coming out of denial).  You mentioned your relationship with your Mother, my childhood was similar.  That’s what made me such a co dependant and such a prime target for my XH.  Most of my self help work the last 7.5 years has been on co dependance.  There’s so much to it, when you really look into it.  That’s why I love (Kel,s I think) line.  I don’t need to set myself on fire to keep others warm.  I did that my entire life, from the age of 5.  All four parents, my XH, my step children.  Took care of and tried to help/fix everyone but me.

One of my new favorite sayings is “what you think of me is not my problem “.  It’s still hard to swallow and it’s not about being selfish or uncaring.  But it’s about letting go of perfectionism (which is not a good thing) and taking care of me first (like on a plane , you put your air mask on first, then your loved ones ).   It takes work to learn how to change after doing it your entire life.  But it’s necessary, to stop making the same mistakes over and over (if you want a better/happier life, especially if/when you take that step).  A good book to read on your trip might be something like co-dependant no more.

I get the need/want for validation (Sean’s thread).  To finally be able to say I was right!  For me now, it doesn’t matter anymore.  Nobody cares.  I don’t need anyone to say “wow, I’m sorry you spent your life working so hard to be a perfect wife/mother/daughter and it all fell apart “.  Now it’s about , make the best you can out of the rest of my life!   And that includes giving back, if I can, cause yup I had ZERO support.

 

October 9, 2018 3:20 am  #25


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

Thank you damage. Yes I was delaying the inevitable but realised my stomach was getting more and more knotted and I couldn’t pretend anymore. I needed to do this as there was never going to be a good time.

I have confronted him with it and his first instinct was to lie. I calmly told him I had pics of 6 weeks and the gig was up. He panicked and went into denial, blaming it on depression etc etc.

Anyway, I’ve done it. Will write more later.

     Thread Starter
 

October 9, 2018 4:52 am  #26


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

OutofHisCloset wrote:

It's likely that after so many years of marriage your spouse has a very good understanding of how to "handle" you--what works to disarm you, how to manipulate you without your knowledge.  You will have the best idea of what is effective: love bombing, sad sausage, etc.  For me it was the sad sausage "poor me" appeal.

OOHC - it was sad sausage.

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October 9, 2018 6:24 am  #27


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

Penny,
    The "sad sausage" appeal to "help me" can be so disarming!  It plays on exactly the dynamic that has characterized the marriage (or did in my case): his need to be helped, his ongoing depression or anxiety, the way it appears to give you value--you can help me!  you have worth in my eyes!--which is easily mistaken for love when it's really all about what use you can be to him.  The same dynamic that in my marriage he used to withdraw more and more into his own head and world and do only those things that played to his needs while pushing off onto me the management of the house (paying attention to what needed maintenance or repair, cajoling him into agreeing whatever it was needed repair, scheduling and overseeing repairs, taking on the lion's share of the yard work).  He did the minimum in our marriage, yet conveyed to me the idea I wasn't doing enough on any front, and that included emotional caretaking of him. So when the reveal came, followed by his fears and tears and the appeal to help him I was primed to feel not only that I responsible for helping him but a rush of love that he "needed" me.
   I'm telling you this because before that appeal--in the period between the reveal and the appeal--I had thought I was done.  I had told him that I wanted a divorce.  He had apparently accepted that.  I was grieving but determined and knew I didn't have a choice.  If I'd known about the triad of behaviors I could expect to see (rage, love bombing, sad sausage appeal) and been on the lookout for it, I'd have been armed with the information that I could have used to protect myself and better able to resist.
   What we have on this forum is the benefit of others' experience and their hard-won wisdom.  We can see patterns across relationships, including partner behaviors and spouse insights while we filter out the individual circumstances that aren't relevant to our situation.  
   What I know from my own experience is that declaring I wanted a divorce did not end it.  For me there was a dangerous time during which I was susceptible to manipulation that would change my mind--I was in shock, I was hurt, I was grieving--and I would have done anything not to have had to divorce. (The force of denial was strong in this one...)  So when my stbx offered me the chance to assert my love for him, I took it, in hopes we'd be able to work through his desires together. What I had to learn was that there's never a "together" in these situations, never an "us" even though they may say there is; in their eyes it's all even and only all about them, a truism inevitably revealed by their behavior.
  I guess what I'm saying is, don't let your guard down.  You may believe you've done the hard thing and once having done it it's done.  But your husband is going to be desperate, and your own hopes and denial may undermine your resolve.  You know what you know.  You know what it means for your marriage.  You know what you have to do.   And you are going to have to be the one to do it, because these in denial/in the closet men will not act, even though it would be the honorable, ethical, loving thing to do.  Because they aren't any of those things--at least in relation to us.
   Maybe you're already past that stage, and that's why you're back again.  Maybe you've been watching him with eyes opened by insight, and have seen his behavior for what it is (and seen through his words).  Maybe you just want support as you do this hard thing we have to do.  Well, you've got it--from those who were here when you first posted, and those of us who are new since then.  We're in this together, and we're the ones who have each others' backs.  

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (October 9, 2018 6:39 am)

 

October 9, 2018 10:38 am  #28


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

Good for you Penny,

I ditto everything OOHC said.   Of course he lied, that’s all he knows how to do anymore.  I’m glad you confronted him, it’s a start.  STAY STRONG, know your truth and trust in yourself.  I had to get to the point that I just had my mantra “he’s lying because his lips are moving “.  Big hugs,from across the pond.

 

October 9, 2018 12:45 pm  #29


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

OOTC,

I wondered with your post if you had placed a camera in my house for the last 25 years. You described our marriage, the depression, anxiety and withdrawal into his head leaving me to deal with everything - including house repairs. What you said really struck me about “I need you” - like you, this is def our theme. I’m the fixer and saver and he knows this. I told him that even though I was the one harmed i still find myself wanting to save him but he had to take care of himself.

When I first confronted him - He tried to explain this as being depressed for last 2 months (although for nothing in particular), grieving the death of his father (30 years ago), how he doesn’t deserve me, us.... how he wrecks everything he loves. I’ve heard this all before.  He pleaded and begged me to tell him what to do “so I can have some hope” - I asked him why he didn’t think about going and talking to someone when he found himself reading gay porn, knowing what it meant for us - he cried that he didn’t know how to do this - “just tell me what I should do”. He’s a mess. He denied being gay and I said - you lie so much that you probably wouldn’t know anyway and it doesn’t really matter anymore.
He asked me what he could do for me and I said “be honest with yourself and admit your gay”.lol. I asked him to give me some space.
This morning he woke me up and said he’d been writing - and started stroking my cheek and I told him he was making me angry - he did this dramatic “I have to respect that” as he sadly walked away. Fuck!!!!! OOHC - you are right, it’s not over at “I’m Done - if you love me then let me go” is it? It’s just beginning. And when he realises I’m serious, I predict some real rage. Which is the reason I’ve been terrified to do this and have been writhing in limbo for 2 years, longer if I’m honest. It’s this part.
I have so much going on at work, and the kind of work I do requires me to be vigilant and very present.

I just have to put one foot in front of the other and get through what is to come. I’m scared, feel sick,  sad, and worried - I can’t be dragged back into this mess again.

Thank you Damaged and OOHC - I so need objective and caring input right now to keep me strong. I need to remind myself, as you say OOHC, of what I KNOW in my gut.

It’s overwhelming.

Last edited by PennyD (October 9, 2018 12:50 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

October 9, 2018 1:04 pm  #30


Re: Old Member Back with TGT once again

OutofHisCloset said
 " I guess what I'm saying is, don't let your guard down..... You know what you know.  You know what it means for your marriage.  You know what you have to do.   And you are going to have to be the one to do it, because these in denial/in the closet men will not act, even though it would be the honorable, ethical, loving thing to do.  Because they aren't any of those things--at least in relation to us."
    
OOHC is right. While still caught in the trap of hope that my 34 r'ship can be saved, and also not quite believing it will end......every day a little piece of what I believed in gets chipped away. He doesn't know it because he doesn't like talking about it, and I've stopped thinking that getting him to talk about it will help.
I know I'll have to be the one to do it. 
So every day I see him in a different light. And I know as I pare and chip away at my r'ship...one day there may be nothing left, all the hopes and dreams gone....but he probably won't even notice because he's left it all to me.

 


*between a rock and a hard place*
 

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