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July 19, 2018 1:47 pm  #21


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

Dear all of us,
Vicky's note made me reflect on something I have been thinking about recently in relation to yazpistacchio, elex_oh and vicky's recent posts.
I am starting to think that there should be a new gender classification. There is gay (trans, bi ... and all the rest), there is straight and there is another category and that is 'in the closet'. I really think it needs to be considered a category because it definitely exists.
The other evening I was in a particularly masochistic moment and I did a local search of men looking for men locally. Let me say that I live in a tiny very rural area. In the search window, I added the word 'married'. I was totally astounded at the things I saw. There was an enormous, and I mean hugely enormous quantity of married men looking to hook up with other men. Some included more bland things like "wife and kids at the beach, looking for a night of pleasure", to "looking to xxxxxxxx to spite my wife", to things that I didn't even know what were. I mean I  actually had to google lots of the terms, because I didn't know what they were (and I never considered myself a Pollyanna or a prude). Wow.... 
I say this after a long walk along the beach with my hubby recently. We talked a lot. He told me that he had given it all a lot of serious consideration (because nobody knows him better than me), but that he doesn't believe he is gay.
What I am saying with all of this here is that lots of us are suffering from the sense of betrayal, from the sense that we were lied to ... and most likely with the fear that we will be lied to again. It is hard to jump back in the saddle after finding out that you were lied to.
A big hug to all of you from me, let us move forward and build our strength back again....
B-strong

 

July 19, 2018 2:04 pm  #22


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

vicky wrote:

I'm about 2.5 years in from D-day.  I've learned a lot, and I know he's not straight for sure which is still really hard for me to believe.  Still, he maintains he's straight so we just don't talk about it.
Vicky

 

Do you mean you both don't talk about it, he won't talk about it....or you're too apprehensive to bring the subject up because of his reaction to it?
 


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July 19, 2018 7:50 pm  #23


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

Walking, dining out, MotoGP, sitting in a spa, we tried Hot Yoga, we do most things together. 

Those sound lovely! Thank you for sharing. Do you do anything that really makes you laugh together? At the risk of TMI, we tend to get very silly around sex (because, really, it's hilarious!) and we have a bit of a competition going, trying to make each other crack up as our foreplay. 

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

The email he sent telling me of his fantasies and bisexual/(gay?) desires was 18 months ago. I refused to entertain the idea of extras in his/our intimate life, so after hiding it all..opening up to me....meeting resistance.. he put a cap on it and....according to him....has "moved on". I now deal with it on my own because of his inability to talk about it. He lied to me/kept secrets once. He can do it again

Oh... oh Ellexoh... think of how hard it was for him to open up to you about that! How many years of trying to hide it, to wish it away, fear of rejection... and do you think perhaps that, after he opened up, he might be feeling rejected since you "refuse" to entertain extras? What do you mean by "extras"? Extra people? I can't do that right now, but you can bet we certainly include plenty of other hot gay-related imagery (via written stories, photos, videos, catalogs, toys, pillow talk, classes, lectures, even a few visits to gay bars, "dungeons," and leather events). While I can't be open enough now for his ideal... a playmate or FWB... I have tried my best to be as inclusive and nonjudgemental as possible. He's spent decades hearing society tell him how terrible he is... he's suffered so much self-loathing and anger. It took SO much courage and vulnerability to open up to me (and I already KNEW he was gay! I can't even imagine how hard it would be if it was a man who spent his life appearing straight... the stress must have been tremendous). I'm so grateful that he felt safe with me, and I feel that it's my job as his partner to help him not only come to terms with who he is and what he desires, but to celebrate and honor it, in ways that affirm us as a couple, me as his partner, AND him as a gay man.

I totally get the sentiment that he didn't want to tell you things to protect you, even as I empathize with you over the betrayal of being lied to. My question is, has he lied about other things, or is this the only thing? Maybe in his head, the lying was less ugly/threatening than TGT... and as long as he kept it bottled up, he never had to deal with the fallout of either. But once the secret was out, now he has to deal with both. I honestly feel for both of you. If this is the only lie he's told, what would happen if you could somehow reset the dial, give him a pass, wipe the slate clean? Both of you put all your cards on the table, rediscover the commonalities that form the foundation of your relationship, and... with intention, honor, kindness, patience, and generosity... start to rebuild. 

Are you talking with a gay-friendly therapist, either on your own or as a couple? If you both are really committed to making this work, and you are good at communicating with each other (not only expressing your own views, but listening to your partner's with an open mind and heart), and resolve to move forward together with honesty... those are the ingredients to making a long-term relationship work, MOM or any other flavor. It's hard work, I won't lie... but the rewards and joy of watching your partner bloom into his real, honest self (and his genuine gratitude towards me for being part of that blossoming) are worth every moment.


 

 

July 19, 2018 11:01 pm  #24


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

Yaz..... You asked "has he lied about other things, or is this the only thing?

the only thing?! 
This wasn't lying about where he had lunch, or forgetting my birthday, or not picking up wet towels off the floor. He's 53, not 13. 
This goes to the very heart of who we are, what we do and what we should expect from each other. 

I have a question for you....do you belong to one of the Yahoo MOM groups?

Last edited by Ellexoh_nz (July 20, 2018 4:22 am)


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July 20, 2018 10:05 am  #25


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

B-strong:  I agree, there is some sort of other classification that needs to be addressed.  I've heard jokes from my gay male friends about 'straight married' guys they hook up with.  I really do think there are men that love their wives, their lives as a straight guy and don't want to be in relationship with men but have some sort of other desire that they can't define.  
Ellexoh:  I have tried so many times to talk about it he denies being anything but straight.  It puts a strain on our relationship because it's super awkward and then I find he's more bottled up afterwards.  If I leave him alone he'll talk about it in round about ways while not directly addressing it.  So I feel like not talking about it is the only way I get to know anything about what he is thinking.
Vicky 


 
 

July 20, 2018 1:56 pm  #26


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

vicky wrote:

B-strong:  I agree, there is some sort of other classification that needs to be addressed....

Like...LGBTQ....ITC..in the closet
or....LGBTQTSTCO....too scared to come out
or....LGBTQNTM/WU....needs to man/woman up

And I've mentioned this before....how about adding SS. For all the straight spouses in there with them

What color would we be in their Fucking rainbow?
 

Last edited by Ellexoh_nz (July 20, 2018 3:57 pm)


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July 20, 2018 4:15 pm  #27


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

Dear Vicky and Ellexoh....
i got my STD results back today and I don't have anything!!!!! Hurray!!!!!!! 
I also wanted to add that you both totally rock the world! We are strong and will be strong together.
Ellexoh ... you are right... what color are we in their fucking rainbow? That is the point of a new gender classification. I have always been totally pro -LGBT....whatever else. The point is that 'in the closet' is something different. It is taking away, stealing, destorying the life of someone else.
Let me add that I am here, in my MOM, in part, because I live in a foreign country and I depend on my hubby for my visa. However, yesterday I met with a lawyer to see about getting my citizenship, which will take 1-2 years)....
Yes, it is true, I must continue a relationship with hubby for now. It is also true that I considered him my best friend for so many years (we've been together 14 years).
But, we are living apart. We see each other a couple of times a week. I have a farm and lots and lots of rescue animals of every type. Tonight on the phone, after I returned from the vet after an emergency. He mentioned .... 'it is normal, you have a lot of animals."  Me? damnit, I thought we saved those animals together.
I truly believe that the gender classification "HIB" husband-in-closet, really does lead to a sort of narcissistic/co-dependent relationship. 
I propose, let's get out of it. Even if we are in our MOM ....Let's make ourselves strong. Let's heal ourselves.
We kick ass! We are cool and amazing and wonderful and we just need to remember that....
A little p.s. to Ellexoh-nz... I liked your response to pistacchio (and I don't want to say anything in offense to you pistacchio, but it seems you are living a different moment - great for you, grab it, live it and feel good with it). Just allow those of us who have been betrayed to stand our ground...
But I also wanted to add that recently (while trying to check up on my HID (hubby in denial), I came across an interesting post in Tumblr (written by a 'bisexual man'. The article was called "beware the straight spouse network". He encouraged others to check it out and wrote a lot of negative jive about this site ... let me say that this site is my life cord at the moment.... here is a link to that negative post ... 
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:G5Xik_I6hnsJ:https://correlatedcontents.tumblr.com/post/136887836604/beware-the-straight-spouse-network+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=it
Don't want to weave conspiracy theories ... just want us to move forward together...
lots of e-love to all of us who are in the same boat!
B-strong

Lots of e-love and hugs to you both!
B-strong

 

July 20, 2018 8:31 pm  #28


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

Yaz..... You asked "has he lied about other things, or is this the only thing?

the only thing?! 

Yes, my question was, "Is this the only thing he has lied to you about?" I'm not at all in any way trying to minimize your pain! I'm trying to get a picture of him... is he a habitual liar? Does he lie all the time? If so, then is this just another untruth he is using to build a web of lies around him?

But if he's an otherwise honorable man, if this is the one and only thing he has ever lied to you about, could it possibly be that he really did feel that he was protecting you from this deep, dark, terrible part of himself that he himself wanted to wish away? Could he possibly be telling you the truth when he said that?

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

I have a question for you....do you belong to one of the Yahoo MOM groups?

Yes, I'm in several of them. Are you trying to identify me? I'm perfectly willing to be public; my name is Katje Sabin and my username on many sites is mamagotcha, or klsabin. Part of our healing was my decision to start treating our MOM as a viable and honest and intentional thing, not something to lie about or hide away. I know so many women (including me, at first!) who felt that, as their husbands emerged from the closet, they found themselves thrust into one. If I've learned nothing else from living with a gay man, I know the closet is only fit for growing mold and mushrooms, not a place of light and respect and truth. So as he begins his more authentic, honest life as an openly out gay man, I also chose to step out as my own authentic, honest self: the wife of a gay man, and a member of a thing called a mixed-orientation marriage. 

This is SUCH a hard thing to do in our society! If you are different, you are supposed to hide it, be ashamed, feel sinful. This is the attitude that causes things like an honest, kind husband to lie to his beloved wife! Isn't that awful? We never, ever wanted to participate in that kind of censorship again. Yes, we are different, but our love is just as real as anyone else's. It was a loving but stern talk from my dear friend Janet Hardy, who is thriving in her own MOM, that finally helped me see the light... I am the only one who can put myself into a closet, and I am the only one who can haul my considerable ass out of it.

B-Strong wrote:

Just allow those of us who have been betrayed to stand our ground...

One thing I had to decide as I walked along this path: whether to wear the role of victim, to nurture that sense of being wronged, to make my husband feel guilty and bad, to punish him, to be Right over everything else. Or to take off that cloak of misery and to stand firm in my own power... to generate and practice compassion for myself AND my partner, to put the health of our marriage over my Need to Be Right (a VERY tough thing for this control freak!), to offer unconditional love to my partner the way he offered it to me. It was NOT an easy choice! I was certainly miserable for months, and my chronic health conditions responded to the stress by wracking me with constant pain in my joints, tendonitis, migraines, insomnia, gut issues... and my husband wasn't much better off, believing he deserved every minute of pain and sadness and guilt and penance. Yes, he brought me flowers and gifts, but we couldn't do much more in bed besides hold hands and cry. THAT was certainly not the marriage I'd signed up for, either! 

We each will make our own choices. And those choices will evolve, as we learn more about each other and make decisions about what we want our lives to look like. I certainly have empathy for where you are standing, because it wasn't very long ago that I was standing right there with you. I still have flare-ups of Righteous Indignation... this sucks! This isn't what my life should look like at 55! I deserve to have what I want and expected, RIGHT NOW! 

Counseling. Talking. Crying. Long walks. Silent chilly evenings where we barely spoke. More talking. More crying. I cried with him just this morning, as I realized that TGT was always going to be a part of our lives, that I would be dealing with little flares of anger, jealousy, fear, hurt, all my life. But the good stuff was just too good to throw away. It easily could have gone the other way... if I was healthier, with better income, no kids depending on me, I could totally have seen myself standing up when he made his request to have sex with other people, and walking out and away from him without a second thought. I cannot for one single second judge anyone who does so. But I've decided that it was worth fighting to save us, and so far I'm not sorry. Ask me tomorrow, I might have a totally different answer! But the original question on this thread was how we were doing right now, and that's what I tried to answer. 

I'm very intentionally focusing on the good parts of our relationship, because the emotions and characteristics that you spend time on will be the ones that grow and flourish (like that old Tony Robbins saw: where focus goes, energy flows). So that's how I'm approaching our MOM. I've met women who love their gay husbands more and more every year, who are happier than they've ever been in their lives, and I'm modeling my actions and attitudes upon theirs, because in ten or 20 years, I want to be that woman in the successful MOM giving hope to the new member who just logged in full of fear, worry, and sadness.

(Though I have a theory that gay men who came of age during the AIDS epidemic -- curse you Reagan, you homophobic, short-sighted, greedy idiot! -- and who went underground to avoid certain death, were forced to play straight, marry women, and tamp down their true selves for decades. And when they hit middle age and their midlife crises, like every other human fortunate enough to live that long, all that repressed desire and shame and loss came to a head, resulting in an epidemic of either disclosure or deceit/discovery, and a wave of women suddenly finding themselves in an MOM. So I'm hoping that this wave has crested and will begin to die down, as LGBT people finally receive the rights and recognition they should have had all along.)

I have to say that the link you posted is a fairly accurate depiction of SSN's reputation among the MOM community. Were you honestly surprised? I'd looked into SSN maybe a decade ago, hoping to find fellowship and support among other women married to gay men, and was horrified by the attitudes I saw, the cult of victimization, the sense of martyrdom, the instant divorce that was being touted as the ONLY sensible path for wives. When I heard SSN's forum was trying to launch a subforum for successful MOMs, I was skeptical but hopeful. I joined and read through a bit, and I can't really say that there is much of a sense of support for finding a way towards mutual satisfaction, joy, and delight in an MOM here... yet. I decided to start posting anyway, and your comment tells me all I need to know about whether things have changed here. But I'm a big fat optimist, and I'm going to let people know that my MOM is (so far) going in a healthy, positive, honest and joyful direction, and hoping that perhaps women starting on this journey might see my words and feel hopeful that they might have a chance to continue their marriages, as well, if they and their partner choose to do so.

As far as the colors of the rainbow: if you are straight and you love an LGBT person, you are an ally. And all the colors are meant to represent diversity... they are all there for all of us. It's OUR rainbow, not "theirs." You only exclude yourself if you want to!
 

 

July 20, 2018 9:05 pm  #29


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

Hi Yaz, your experience on this piece is encouraging and inspirational to me. Thanks.

 

July 20, 2018 11:11 pm  #30


Re: Update on those still in their MOMs

YazPistachio wrote:

No I have no wish to identify you. But I attempted in the first confusing, tearful, angry part of this lonely journey to join a Yahoo MOM group...but was rejected. Twice. So joined this forum, and although parts of it, and the obvious slant towards "if he's gay your r'ship is doomed" saddens me often..the members here welcomed me and accepted my desire to work on what I'm going through. After being rejected twice from a group that would supposedly be tailor-made for MY situation..I feel more 'at home' among the members of this forum...who are tolerant, helpful and empathetic of my indecision

..And this from you " And all the colors are meant to represent diversity... they are all there for all of us. It's OUR rainbow, not "theirs." You only exclude yourself if you want to!"
This is, I feel, an empty platitude. Nowhere....have I seen mention of a straight spouse in anything I've read in the uplifting/be authentic literature, writings, articles of the LGBTQ community

 


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