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1 - StrongerThanIKnew
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What constitutes Abuse
I know that seems like a silly question, but reading here and elsewhere really has me wondering. Now, I am not talking about obvious physical/emotional/verbal abuse. I'm talking about things that are more subtle.
For example, love bombing. Is that abusive or more of a warning sign that you may be getting involved with a narcissist?
When does manipulation cross the line into abuse? Let's be honest. We have all probably tried to manipulate a person or situation hoping to get a desired result.
I ask because I have been thinking about my situation, and am wondering if it was abusive. Honestly, it really bothers me to think of it that way for a number of reasons. One is a pride thing. I like to think of myself as a strong somewhat intelligent woman and how could I have allowed that to happen to me. Also, I know strong, smart women can be victims of abuse as much as anyone else, but I feel like I shouldn't have been so easily fooled. Also, though, I don't want, in any way, to equate my experience to those of women who live in fear every . single . day .because they are at the mercy of their abusers.
See, I was never touched in anger. However, soon after we married, I did see him become very angry with his ex-wife, and it was scary. I only saw that anger a couple of other times and each time I ushered my kids out of the room because I didn't want them to see it. I did spend the next 20 years walking on eggshells when sensitive subjects came up so as not to anger him. Fortunately, he was fairly laid back and easy going, so that wasn't all that difficult.
My STBX didn't berate or belittle me verbally - until very recently. Actually, he only started when I started to not automatically do as he said. I was a good, submissive Christian wife.
In 3 or 4 large matters and countless smaller ones, he promised that we could do or he would seriously look into things I wanted, and then changed his mind after he got what he wanted. For example, when he wanted a vasectomy, he finally agreed to seriously look into adoption. I wanted more kids, but after a rough pregnancy with #2, I wasn't really wanting to carry more kids anyway and had wanted to adopt for years - even before we had our biological children. He always just said no. Wouldn't even consider it. Of course, after the procedure, he didn't even give it a second thought - much less serious consideration as promised. There are several examples like this. Sometimes the promise was more than just looking into something but actually doing something, and those things never happened.
Also, he always framed something he was doing in a way that made it sound like it was for me when really it was for him. For example, when he came out, he said it was because he was getting more forgetful and was afraid he would leave some of "her" clothes in the laundry and I could find them. He wanted me to know the truth of what was going on so that I didn't think he was having an affair or anything like that. How noble of him, right? To admit something like that to me in the off chance he would accidentally leave women's underwear in the laundry and I would find them. He was just trying to spare my feelings. Later in the conversation, it came out that he was wanting to start wearing more gender neutral clothing at home and maybe I could help with hair and make-up tips, too. Now, by this time, it had happened so much that when he said that, I thought.... "There it is. That is the real reason he is telling me this now."
So, there are more examples, but I will leave it at that.
Again, he was never physically abusive or anything like that. He did let me go on thinking his lack of interest in me was because I had gained weight though - which is certainly a self-esteem killer.
So, could this be classified as an abusive relationship? Or would "toxic" be a better term?
Thing is... whichever term is used, I would have told you I was happy and that we had a really good marriage - not without its ups and downs, but definitely solid.
Thanks.
Stay Strong
- Ellexoh_nz
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
I think.....Abuse is too personal and individual to ever be compared with another persons. Our situation
are too disparate, our descriptions too varied.
But, for me, it was acknowledgment that the dynamic between my partner and I....the strength of which I never
questioned....had changed so much that I had to admit I felt marginalised, not taken into account and dismissed
as not worthy of his honesty.
I would call it insidious, subtle, uncaring and selfish arrogance. Abuse is too short a word
KIA KAHA
- Duped
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
I think that destroying someone’s sense of reality by intentionally confusing them to have things the way you want them; telling and convincing them that things they saw and remembered weren’t real, that stories that didn’t add up were true, and continuously, cyclically affirming then destroying trust and intimacy to create a false, confused loyalty on their own terms is abuse.. That’s my experience, in a nutshell.
- JenS
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
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Last edited by JenS (January 4, 2019 8:40 am)
- Lynne
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
Deleted.
Last edited by Lynne (October 3, 2020 6:58 pm)
- OutofHisCloset
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
Stronger,
This is an answer from a former Director of a Women's Studies Program, who has taught on domestic violence and abuse, and hosted a number of speakers and programs on domestic violence and abuse.
Yes, the dynamic you describe is abusive. A partner does not have to engage in physical violence to abuse you. Controlling you with the the threat of violence--for example, your seeing his anger and needing to usher you children from the room, your having to walk on eggshells--is abusive in its dynamic, as is your placating behavior to keep the peace (and calling that being a "good Christian wife").
What is confusing to you, I'll wager, is that there was no violence. But the use of such tactics as deflection or the refusal to do as he promised to do was a way for him to alter the dynamic so that his wishes were the ones that prevailed. And as you knew what the reaction would be if you pushed, and you accepted his role as the head of the household and yours as submissive and subservient, and asked rather than insisted, he got away with it.
There are very clear and longstanding guidelines for defining domestic abuse; here's an url that you can access. You will see on the wheel, that manipulative and belittling behaviors are defined as emotional abuse.
- OutofHisCloset
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
The problem with defining abuse as "whether you feel it is or not" is that the dynamic of abuse alters the way you feel and think. It redefines normal, and therefore you begin to feel what has been clearly defined as abusive behavior is okay.
- StrongerThanIKnew
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
Thanks everyone for the replies, and thanks JenS and OoHC for the links. It was all very eye opening.
I am beginning to see my marriage in a new light. Also, now that I'm learning about all this manipulation, etc., he has become quite predictable. I'm thankful to all of you because now I can see it, and if I recognize it, it loses its effectiveness.
So, thank you.
Stay Strong.
- •
Thread Starter- walkbymyself
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
Duped wrote:
I think that destroying someone’s sense of reality by intentionally confusing them to have things the way you want them; telling and convincing them that things they saw and remembered weren’t real, that stories that didn’t add up were true, and continuously, cyclically affirming then destroying trust and intimacy to create a false, confused loyalty on their own terms is abuse.. That’s my experience, in a nutshell.
Yup. Absolutely. My husband didn't just do this to me, he did it to our daughter, and for all the same reasons.
One time, she came home from school for Christmas break and freaked out when she found a condom wrapper in her bed. At the time, we'd had some workers in the house doing some flooring -- and I called their boss and accused them. Now I realize that was only one possible explanation, but a more likely explanation was that my husband was having a little fun while I was out of the house at work. I can't prove this, but I can tell you my daughter absolutely freaked: she pulled off the bed linens and threw them in the wash, and then came down and slept in my bed and refused to even go near her own room.
- JenS
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Re: What constitutes Abuse
To me, this thread exemplifies the best of SSN in terms of members working together, as a community, to get information out to another member. I wish that there was a way to flag this thread as a "key read" for those experiencing similar issues. I don't want it to get lost. I'd actually like to keep it going as a resource about emotional abuse.