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August 10, 2016 11:42 am  #1


How to deal without any proof

My husband and I have been married for 6 years, together for 8. When we got together he wasn't very experienced, I could tell, but he was raised very strictly Catholic. It set off a little alarm bell at the time, why would an attractive 35 year old man only have 4 lovers, his whole life and zero relationships longer than two months? But I ignored it because he was sweet and attentive and I thought maybe I was just trying to find a reason to leave. I've always been the one to initiate sex and as time has gone on he's had more and more difficulty performing. There are also times when he just vanishes emotionally. This last few emotional disappearances devolved into rage, but this last one was just scary. We had a huge blow up and he said he didn't know if he wanted to be married to me anymore. Yesterday, I read with horror articles on signs that your spouse may be gay, and everything clicked into place:

He has never initiated sex and when we do have sex, it's quick and to the point and it's always been like that. He gets super affectionate around men when he drinks. He's secretive. He has episodes of rage. His best friend is a closeted gay man. He leaves the house for hours at night after the kids and I have gone to bed. He's been spending more time at work. He's homophobic and thinks homosexuality is something that you can control. He gets upset whenever our four-year-old son wants to wear make-up or paint his toe nails. 

The problem is I don't have any proof. Only suspicions. It's driving me crazy and I'm having a difficult time acting normally around him. All I can think is that he's been lying to me for the last 8 years and I've been stupid enough to believe him. I keep remembering these events that should have made me know: Fingernail scratches on his back, that were too big to be a woman's so I thought maybe he did it to himself somehow. Blowing off sex with me to hang out with his closeted friend outside our home. The way he talks about his new male colleague at work and the way that colleague looks at him.

I think he knows he crossed a line with me when we fought this past weekend and now he's all apologetic. He wants to start going back to religious services, he wants to take me on a date, says he's going to get counseling. Compounding the problem is his drinking, which gets worse during the "vanishing act" months. I just don't know what to do other than get checked for STDs and get our financial house in order to prepare for a divorce. 

All this is a long way of saying: how do you move forward when you only have suspicions and no proof?

 

August 10, 2016 1:58 pm  #2


Re: How to deal without any proof

I think you've got plenty of symptoms, and you're afraid to misdiagnose the illness.  Understandable.  However, even doctors at some point say that the most likely outcome is X, and start treating for that illness.  They have the advantage of knowing that if the person gets better, they hit the right diagnosis.  The Gay Thing doesn't give us that luxury.  The problem is that it seems that the only proof that seems good enough to us is our spouse saying, "Yes, I'm gay".  If they never say it, we never seem sure.  We always worry that all the proof in the world combined with them saying "I'm NOT gay!" still isn't enough.

All I can tell you is that the symptoms you're seeing are pretty serious.  A man never initiating sex is serious.  A husband only performing quick, perfunctory sex is an issue.  A lack of intimacy in a marriage is a huge issue.  And where does he say he's going at night after you've all gone to bed?  Wherever it is, something's wrong with that.  And the "vanishing act" - is it just emotional vanishing, or physical as well?  Either is a problem - a BIG one.  When you throw the other issues on top (the closeted bff, scratch marks on his back, and blowing off sex with you to hang out with his bff outside of the house), I don't know what other diagnosis you CAN come to.  But even if you never get a true diagnosis, you've got enough problems going on there that you can tell yourself that you deserve better than this crazy crap.  It's not supposed be this hard.

I would be doing exactly what you thing you should - get checked for STDs and get your financial house in order, and see a divorce lawyer.

Best to you -

Kel


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

August 10, 2016 7:44 pm  #3


Re: How to deal without any proof

All too often we get caught up on finding proof, eliciting a confession, deciding on gay vs. bi, to the point that we miss the bigger picture. Is this a healthy relationship or a way to live? You don't need evidence of transgressions to decide you want out. You just need to decide you have had enough. For some people the disappearances, drinking and rage would be enough. Whatever you do, please keep yourself and your son safe.


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

August 10, 2016 7:54 pm  #4


Re: How to deal without any proof

Marriages end for all kinds of reasons.
Whether he ever confesses or you ever find proof (should you choose to try), will not change the fact that he has never been truly engaged in the marriage.

If you are unhappy and he is unwilling to completely commit to do whatever it takes improve, then you may have some reason to continue. However, given what you've already written, he never was fully engaged in the relationship. He was going through the motions; acting, pretending. He isn't the man you believed you married. He's the man he needed you to think he was. He knows you well enough, in his mind, to believe that you would never leave him, no matter what.

I strongly suggest you make a plan for yourself, regardless of your short or long-term expectations of what he might or might not do. Get ALL and I mean ALL of your finances in order. Make copies of EVERYTHING and put them in a safe place; including all assets, tax returns, etc. I would go so far as meeting with several attorneys who offer their first hour consultation for free. Take the list of financial information with you, along with your list of questions. Edit the questions as you see each attorney. If you are in a no-fault state, with very very few exceptions, infidelity means nothing.

If you can, find a reputable therapist. Don't look for someone with expertise in this area, because they're more scarce than a politician with scruples. What you DO want is someone who understands narcissism (your husband) and codependency (you).

You might also consider joining the mailing list that is part of the Straight Spouse Network. It is a private list, as is the str8s FB page. There are str8s everywhere. There are also groups in some parts of the country that actually meet on a fairly regular basis. Where do you live? Someone from SSN can give you the name of a str8 spouse contact in your area.

Whatever you do, know that you've done nothing wrong. You didn't make him gay. You didn't make him lie. The orientation is not a choice; all of the behaviors are.

You're not alone. We get it. Keep posting. Take care of yourself.
Patti in CA
 

 

August 11, 2016 9:28 am  #5


Re: How to deal without any proof

Floored -I'm sorry you're here.  I wasted about four years looking for "proof".  I wasn't able to move on until I realized that all the things he was doing (the jerking off to gay porn, the naked pics, the ordering dildos) were my proof.  I didn't need to walk in and find him with a man.  No, I needed to look at the fact that he had been doing those things for the entire 12 years that I knew him (and even before as it turns out). 

In your case, you can take everything else out and just focus on one thing:  no one's husband should disappear at night for any amount of time.  If you need proof of where he's going, put a tracking device on his car (I understand you can get some reasonably priced ones and stick them under the bumper).  But if it were me and my husband started disappearing at night, I'd leave based on that alone.  There is clearly something going on, whether it be with a male or female (although it sounds clearly like it's his male friend).  All you have to decide now is do you want to continue this charade. 

 

August 11, 2016 10:22 am  #6


Re: How to deal without any proof

I had no proof when I left or so I thought. I did not find out about TGT until after we had been through a lengthy separation and our divorce was finally completed. But it turns out that hindsight is 20:20 and I actually did have proof of his cheating and infidelities.  I just never saw it clearly and I never understood it.  I think almost everything you wrote could fall into the category of red flags and proof.  Further, he is also hinting, broaching, grooming you for the idea that he does not want to be married to you anymore.

You are right and your intuition and your gut are both screaming at you. It is time to have a Plan B for yourself and your child.  In addition to getting tested for STD's and getting your financial house in order you must get an attorney.  An attorney in your home State will be able to help you get your ducks in a row and he/she will be able to advise you as to what you can expect. Getting this legal information is imperative and will help you make informed decisions for your future. 

Don't get hung up on trying to have rock-solid proof or trying to understand why he does the things he does or trying to understand TGT, or believing the words and excuses he may try to butter you up with.  Actions do speak louder than words.  If he is leaving you in the middle of the night, when he could lean over and be with you, he is meeting someone.   I am so sorry.  You and your children deserve so much more. 

If you are finding it difficult to take action, break down all you have to do into baby steps.  Perhaps make one phone call today to find a lawyer  and another call to make a gyro appointment tomorrow.  You don't have to do everything at once. I lived by a "To Do" list for the first year because it was the only way I could function.  This is not easy and I would never wish it on my worst enemy.  But there is an authentic good and happy life waiting for you on the other side of his closet.  It is just hard to see that good life now.


 


"No matter how hard the journey may be, remember to be kind to yourself..."
 

August 11, 2016 12:50 pm  #7


Re: How to deal without any proof

Thank you, everyone. I had my super crazy moment yesterday and went home at lunch to search through his closet. The only thing I did discover is that he deleted the call history and the text messages on his old phone. But everyone is right, the bottom line is that I don't trust him anymore and I always have before.

The disappearing at night has always bothered me. He says he's just hanging out in his car, listening to music or going for a bike ride or looking at the moon, but it's just weird, and it really ramped up after he got a smartphone. Honestly, I go to bed early with our son and am a really sound sleeper, so I have no idea if that's even the truth. 

Because he's been behaving so erratically, I'm afraid of what a divorce will do to him. He's supposed to get into counseling next week and he's totally saying all the right things, but it just rings false. It's just an act. It's all an act and that's what's so hard to wrap my brain around.

I went to the doctor today. Financials are next week.

 

     Thread Starter
 

August 11, 2016 1:42 pm  #8


Re: How to deal without any proof

My XH's excuse for missing time in the middle of the night was: "He had to think, he went for a long drive so he could think."

This did not happen but a few times a year, but I was always unnerved by it and thought it strange.  Now I know what he was doing.  Absences during the day time were undetectable due to the nature of his work and work-related travel. But towards the end I had a few people calling me and wondering where he had been including one of his doctors tried to strongly hint at his activities, but I just did not get it.  

Ugh, I hate to admit that I was extremely naive and too trusting and put up with way too much stuff over the years. Back then I just never thought that the person you loved and were committed to would be so deceitful. Life really is so much easier and sweet when you are away from TGT.  My Str8 guy never disappears.


"No matter how hard the journey may be, remember to be kind to yourself..."
 

August 15, 2016 9:48 am  #9


Re: How to deal without any proof

Sigh...

floored,
"..I went to the doctor today. Financials are next week."    Good for you...baby steps..we walk by faith.  We do what is right and moral regardless of how much it hurts or painful it is.

".. The disappearing at night has always bothered me."   Ditto here..  she would meet her friend at strange hours and stay out late like she was 17 again.     They may as well hang up a neon sign that says I'm cheating and lying.    But they think its normal, want you to think its normal, and/or don't care what you think.

I don't think we were all naive so much as trusting as one is supposed to be in a marriage.  

I say just continue all your steps.   slow and steady,  stoic and firm.        I will say that now I may have some problems adjusting to life after my ex  but I would not go back if you paid me.. she gives new meaning to phrase "burn all your bridges".     

a prayer and hug ..



 


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

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